Author Topic: F650 GS R13 / 2000 / GS911 - BMS-C: reset adaptations for TPS / IAC not working  (Read 3014 times)

stardust_59

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I have got a question:
Using a yellow GS911 Blu -
I tried to reset adaptations for TPS / IAC since I cleaned the throttle body and the IAC.

The engine was run and temperatures logged were around 100 deg Celsius engine temp, fan turning on.

Keeping the engine running I tried to reset adaptations and received an error message that conditions are not met or sequence of commands is incorrect.

Next step.
Turn engine off.

Reconnect GS911, restart GS 911 software (PC) , check engine temp and then go to reset adaptations menu and try reset adaptation again.

Again the same error message appears.

All other comms with ABS and BMS work ok
ABS bleed works so the service functions are intact.

What am I doing wrong ?
 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 02:52:13 AM by stardust_59 »

WayneC

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After cleaning the throttle body & with the engine cold the GS911 should have been connected & adaptions reset, then the engine started without throttle & allowed to idle until the fan kicked in to rebuild adaptions across the temperature range

I would assume, but you dont mention, that you cleaned the Idle Actuator & the airways in the throttle body associated with it

Why you would attempt an adaption reset with the engine already running and up to operating temperature is a mystery to me

stardust_59

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F650 GS R13 / 2000 / GS911 - BMS-C: reset adaptations for TPS / IAC not working
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2018, 12:34:46 AM »
Wayne thanks , got it.

Forgot to mention:
SW version GS-911 V1807.2

I went over the procedure again with the engine cold.
Ignition on, Kill switch in position 'ON' and gear in neutral.

Same result.

I noted then on the lower right : VIGN = 0,0 V.

Normally VIGN is about the same as VBATT.

Well, stupid me.
The sidestand was down.

I will have to check again with the sidestand up.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 12:39:40 AM by stardust_59 »

stardust_59

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F650 GS R13 / 2000 / GS911 - BMS-C: reset adaptations for TPS / IAC not working
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2018, 11:06:32 PM »
Short update:

tried with sidestand up.
Adaptation Error remains.
VIGN = 0.0V
For a short moment VIGN was 0.01V. Not sure if this has somethig to say.
Would suspect wiring problem.

Started with sidestand up, first gear, clutch pulled.
Engine fires up.

Will check sidestand wiring.
Looked for chafing at (+) battery terminal. - Negative. All ok. No trace of chafing.

Possibly Igition switch ?


Bike never saw BMW shop, likely not to recall (main harness chafing issue at Shock Adjuster bracket)


Checked:
Ignition off fault

http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php/topic,1033.msg4856.html#msg4856


Any possibility Dashboard involved ?

Other ideas ?
TIA
Jan

WayneC

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It does sound like you have a problem with the wiring/side stand switch, why you would put the bike into first gear & pull the clutch in to start is beyond me though, surely you would simply put side stand up and the bike into neutral, I am assuming you have a the bike up on the centre stand

With the 650GS there is no Ignition On signal extended to the diagnostics socket, it is 3 wire only hence you have to click past the warning re ignition on. Clearly the ignition switch is not a problem or you would not have been able to start the bike at all

Re dash, there is no diagnostics comms to the dash on the 650GS & it plays no part in whether the bike starts, that is all handled by the BMSC & the starter lockout circuits which remove power from the BMSC by depowering the Motronic relay
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:24:59 AM by WayneC »

stardust_59

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I did the start with sidestand up and in gear, with clutch pulled as I suspected a similar interlock 'mechansim' as on the classic F650 and other bikes.
Indeed either of these conditions - sidestand down , or in gear (without clutch pulled) will prevent starting.

The bike is on the center stand, yes.

As I can see from thw wiring diagram, the Propstand switch is connected to K9110 (Motronic relay) and S9092 (Neutral safety switch) and S9091 (Clutch Safety Switch)

S9092 (Neutral safety switch) and S9091 (Clutch Safety Switch) are conneted via diode V9400 and to the propstand switch via X9380 and X9428.
Thus this setup looks pretty much like on the F650 E169 (Funduro)


I also remember , when working on the F650 CS that VIGN shows close to VBATT  if the sidestand is up.

I did the ECU tests and was also able (as a test) to recalibrate the Lambda Sensor. So these items are functional.

It is only the adaptation that fails and I suspect VIGn=0 to be the reason.

All other functionality of the Engine , starting, idling etc is normal.

The reason I want to to the adaptation is that I note a very slow response of the IAC after revving the engine (to about 2000 rpm) and then releasing the throttle to idle.

The return to idle rpm is delayed and I can see in the live values that the IAC stepper shows a slow response.
It is not the throttle cable.
It moves freely and does not catch anywhere - there is enough play for the throttle to mechanically return to idle position (at the small adjuster screw)


I do have a log file of this behavior.

I will check the wiring and functionality of the prop stand, but I suspect something else to be responsible for the VIGN = 0.0V
If - VIGN = 0.0V is one of the error conditions that prevent adaptation.

Then what are the conditions to be met to perform the adaptation ?


WayneC

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Forget chasing Vign, you are wasting time on something which is not relevant & in terms of the BMW diagrams there are errors in the published diagrams which will lead you astray in some areas, there is some additional info on line http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/ElectricalRepairs.html

Do a reset of all adaptions then rebuild the adaptions as per the process I indicated in a post above

If you cant diagnose/start with the bike in neutral & ignition on, info on the starter lockouts is on the pages below
http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/DiodeRepair.html & http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/StarterCctRepair.html
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 02:18:36 PM by WayneC »

stardust_59

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Wayne, thanks again for your advice.

To reiterate:

Everything works on the F650 GS
ECU - no fault codes
All ECU tests and individual actuator tests (IAC, Injector,Fuel pump, Fan) are ok. Pass. They work.
ABS no fault codes.
ABS Full bleed performed due to brake fluid change.
Brake pressure points stable.

Bike starts runs and idles stable.

All Fuses show continuity.
Dash seems ok too.
Init sequence (light show ABS, Coolant lamps) on Dash is ok as well.
Speedo works.

The only thing I cannot do is to do the adaptation reset.
Bike on main stand.  Engine cold. Sidestand up. Gear in neutral. Kill switch ON. Ignition ON.

Error: conditions not met or false sequence of commands.

Perhaps GS911 SW v1807.2 ?

Might try an older version !?

I am chasing a phantom...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 04:41:51 PM by stardust_59 »

WayneC

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I did some quick tests on both single spark & dual spark BMSC using 1807.2 & I am unable to replicate the problem you are encountering, I am using a GS911 WiFi & USB connection which is the only real difference so I would discount 1807.2 being the issue, I even generated some fault codes to see if each of the resets failed, but they cleared the adaptions & of course the PC App gave a warning re the faults

Beyond this issue, with the dash assembly if you see any strange behaviour like ODO digits flashing when ignition is turned on dont muck about, have the 5v power rail electrolytic capacitor replaced, it will save you some grief

stardust_59

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Wayne thanks again for having a look into the glass bowl.
I hooked up with hexcode support and sent them the GS911 logs.

No answer on said conditions or command sequence though.
They may want to keep their trade secret, which I understand.

Bike has 40k km and stood in a barn for quite a while.
I'll have a look at the wiring again and the dash will be disassembled - just to get a status on corrosion and possible vibration damage.
Dash operates ok, no flicker on the lcd display.
clock on when ignition off.
total km when ignition on.
stepper reset routine after disconnecting and reconnecting ok.
 

Let us see what hexcode has to say.

I followup with the solution if there is one of general interest.

Thanks again
jan


Nicol Carstens

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Dear Jan & Wayne

Wayne thanks again for having a look into the glass bowl.
I hooked up with hexcode support and sent them the GS911 logs.

@Wayne, as always: big thanks for flying the flag and helping out. Apologies for the silence. I have been spending time in another trench!

@Jan: thanks for the call. Apologies for overlooking this thread. I am going to have a look at your logs and see what I can find. Hang in there please! PM you soon.

Best

Nicol

Nicol Carstens

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Hi Wayne

Why you would attempt an adaption reset with the engine already running and up to operating temperature is a mystery to me

Jan might have followed the instructions in the Hex manual? From the PC App:

"Resetting of all adaptation values (TPS zero position, lambda controller, idle regulator):

Note: In order for the BMS-C to relearn the throttle valve zero position, it is essential that the
throttle cable is correctly adjusted. Make sure that the throttle valve rests against the
mechanical stop when in the idle position, with the handlebar turned to full lock in both the left
and right position.

Note: To relearn the idle controller value, the cold engine must be started and allowed to idle until
it reaches operating temperature, approximately 80 degC (or until the fan starts up)"

:)

Nicol

Nicol Carstens

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Update for those that might be curious:
  • It would appear the GS911 hardware and software is working as expected. No obvious problems with the tools.
  • We have had a detailed look at Jan's logs as well as the latest PC App software. We can confirm that the problem on PC screen is the problem reported on the bus by the ECU.
  • Where does this leave us? The ECU is refusing the reset. Question is why? Unfortunately, the ECU provides limited information on the conditions/status from its point of view.
  • Best guess from the team at the moment is some sensor/wiring failure, but we are continuing to work with Jan to figure it out. Less likely, but not impossible: some timing issue.
Keep you posted. Any words-of-wisdom from past experience as always invited.

Nicol

WayneC

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Jan

As a matter of interest what firmware version is in the BMSC ?, can you post the info from the autoscan or Nicol do you have it in the log ?

Nicol Carstens

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Hi Wayne and Jan,

I have conducted more testing using our own 2001 F650GS. It was out of town. Returned yesterday. It should be a very close match to the one Jan owns. I used the same PC App and GS911 yellow device. Our bike reads:
  • Controller Name : BMS-C
  • Part No. : 07668133
  • HW Version No: C2
  • Diagnostic index: 04
  • Software Version No: 8000
  • Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD): 2001-09-10
  • Manufacturer: Hella GmbH
  • Data Release: 80003601
  • ECU Id (VIN) : ZH78832

As a matter of interest what firmware version is in the BMSC ?, can you post the info from the autoscan or Nicol do you have it in the log?

I actually don't have an autoscan in hand for Jan's bike, but I constructed one from the logs. It looks like the firmware on the BMS-C in our F650GS here at Hex is 8000, while the one that Jan owns is at firmware version 5001. Do you think ECU firmware could be a problem?

I performed extensive adaptation reset testing on our bike. Nothing out of place.

Regards

Nicol