Author Topic: Rough Running R1200GS 2007  (Read 1071 times)

mike d

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Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« on: July 26, 2020, 06:31:58 PM »
Hi all,

Trying to help out a club member here in the UK. R1200GS 2007.

Symptoms/Actions:

No stored fault codes.

He took it out for a ride on Wednesday; trying to filter in traffic, it was borderline unrideable, not wanting to pull below 3,000 in any gear. In addition, when pulling up it was cutting out after a few seconds, even when fully warm.
I've been doing further investigation, and found that the lambda sensors were showing radically different values; sensor 2 was generally showing low voltage, indicating that cylinder was running very lean. I swapped the two sensors over to check it wasn't a faulty sensor, and it wasn't. Using a little throttle to keep the revs up a bit, it repeatedly stumbled; each time, the voltage dropped on sensor 2.

Swapped the primary coils over; it made no difference, either to the rough running or the difference between the two lambda sensor outputs. I also checked the TPS, which is fine – 0% on closed throttle, immediately registering any movement, and going up to 100%. Just running it on the drive, I got it up to temperature; it would then idle pretty happily at 1,200. I noticed that if I then gave it just a little throttle – enough to take it to 1,500 – it was then very rough, fluctuating to below 1,000 as it came close to stalling. Given more throttle, it seemed okay.

He found a slightly tight exhaust valve clearance, but even after correct adjustment, the bike still runs rough.

The bike has a full Remus exhaust system and no exhaust flap fitted, 

Adaptations have been reset.

I have attached his initial .CSV file (M BUCK 1) with limited sensors. The file is a log of  – TPS, RPM, injection time, lambda sensors – running it on the drive, including steady idle, steady at 2,00 and above, and the stumbling/rough running between the two.

He also sent me a file with all sensors shown, but it is in XLSX format, which I can't load on the forum.

I still think it could be a faulty Throttle position sensor.

All suggestions gratefully accepted.

Thanks

Mike



« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 06:34:02 PM by mike d »

Jughead

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 08:00:16 AM »
Most likely a stuck idle bypass valve.  Swap them over and check whether the symptoms move.

If they do, replace the one on the lean running cylinder.

mike d

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 01:16:45 PM »
Update time (Members own words), plus attached file

I have made some progress, though it's still not completely okay. Yesterday I went over it again, and found that at least one of the pipes that links airbox to throttle body wasn't seated at the airbox end. That pain was self-inflicted; when reassembling, in place of the BMW clips I used jubilee clips. Those are wider than the BMW clips; they work fine on both ends of the throttle body, but the extra width is a problem on the airbox end. I think that, when I tightened everything up 'just to be sure', it had actually pulled the pipe off. I've now removed the jubilee clips at that end and reseated the pipes, and on a brief test ride it didn't feel like the bike was actively trying to kill me!

It still won't idle when cold, and still runs rough just off idle. Following your email this morning, I swapped over the idle valves, which made no difference to the behaviour or the lambda output values. The attached is from this morning; it needed throttle to start (lines 16 to 23), and then settled to a fairly smooth idle around 1,200 (lines 24 to 51). Take a look at lines 65-ish to 75; on a small throttle setting, that's when it runs rough, the revs fluctuating between 1,600 and 1,000. From line 80 to 133 I used a steady throttle to keep the revs around 2,000; that's when lambda 1 is continually reading high (rich), while lambda 2 is oscillating between rich and lean.

Mike

Jughead

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 04:55:43 PM »
The fact that you need to twist the throttle to get it to start tells me that one (or both) of the idle bypass valves isn't working.  Although the readings on you csv file indicate that they are working, have you physically removed them and cycled the ignition to watch whether they actually move in and out as they are supposed to?

This is what they should do when cycling the ignition.  First click you hear is ignition on, second click is ignition off.


Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 07:42:06 PM »
 It would be nice to see a full set of data.
 The lambda voltages oscillate between 100 and 900 mv  the samples that your data is showing can not give any information as the sample rate is slow, and the points can be picked any where from the wave form.
 Best to use the GS911 and look at the wave form.
 The lambda control factor readings would be more interesting along with Injector pulse width ,Air temperature, Engine temperature, Throttle position etc.
  If you publish a full set of data, listing the point at which the problem is occurring, I would like to take a look at it.
  No guarantees, just interested.   

mike d

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 09:22:53 PM »
Hi Chris,

Do you want it in graphical format or numeric?

Mike


Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2020, 09:53:05 PM »
 Just the .CSV file with a full set of parameters would be good.

Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 09:48:25 AM »
 From previous .csv file the idle actuator readings look a little bit low at idle and the rpm looks a bit high. Are the blanking rubber caps still on the vacuum ports? and also no one has adjusted the throttle valve stop screws?

mike d

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2020, 11:27:37 AM »
The following response is again from the member (I am miles away from the bike), see the attached CSV file that is associated with this post:

I've done my best, though it's not a FULL set of data due to that hammering the refresh rate. There are two worksheets in the attached spreadsheet, one where I captured the bare minimum, the other where I captured most of the 'dynamic' settings. Engine temperature was 100-105 C; it was reporting ambient air temperature as 27C, which is around 10 degrees higher than it actually is. I think that's probably due to hot air coming off the engine.

Both sets of data show the same thing, that when using throttle to maintain around 2,000 rpm, lambda 1 stays continually rich while lambda 2 bounces around, anything from 50 to 70 up to the 800s. This time, I spotted that there's quite a difference between the two knock sensors as well. I'm not sure what else is significant in the data. The sampling rate is still low, no more than three samples per second; that was with it set to 'turbo' sampling rate. Is the sampling rate a function of the speed/power of the computer being used, as well as the number of data items being sampled?

Both blanking caps are still in place. I don't even know where the throttle valve stop screws are, so I doubt I've adjusted them!


He has an appointment with the local BMW main dealer today, so whatever is found  I will report back.

Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 11:54:24 AM »
 Just had a quick look. will look in greater detail later.
 The lambda sensor in column C at 2000 rpm  is reporting an air fuel ratio of a constant 11 to 1  this is very rich whilst the other sensor looks right at about 14.7 to 1.
  So first I would swap the sensors over.
 

mike d

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2020, 12:06:02 PM »
The sensors have already been swapped, fault remained on the same side (see first post).

Mike

Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2020, 01:12:48 PM »
 You could try unplugging that sensor as I understand the ecu would default to a reading of  lambda 1 = 14.7 to 1 AFR
  As the ECU is seeing a  rich reading of 11 to 1  on one cylinder it will try to lean that cylinder out.
 The output signal for the injector pulse width is common to both cylinders so unless that injector is faulty they should be even.
  Try swapping the injectors over.
 Obviously the throttle position sensor is common to both cylinders.

Jughead

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2020, 01:20:48 PM »
Lambda sensor readings are a reflection of what is happening to the combustion and fuel mixture, not the cause of the issue.  Replacing a lambda sensor because it is giving a rich reading is like running a fever and then tossing out your thermometer because it is giving you a high temp reading.  :o

Chris.S

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 01:48:31 PM »
 I agree Lambda sensor readings are a reflection of what is happening to the combustion and fuel mixture.
 But It seems to be a faulty sensor reporting a rich mixture to the ecu, or a rich mixture being caused by a faulty injector being reported to the ecu by a good lambda sensor.
 As it appears on only one cylinder I can not see anything else that is not common to both cylinders that could make that much difference to the AFR`s of one cylinder.

Jughead

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Re: Rough Running R1200GS 2007
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 02:01:45 PM »
I have suggested replacing the idle actuators but it would appear that 12 years of experience on these bikes doesn't count for much.