Author Topic: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF  (Read 12077 times)

effisland

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Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« on: March 22, 2015, 02:31:35 AM »
OK so what's with this product - no manual to explain what all the codes mean? I don't mind a message board but it feels like us users are blinding testing this product with no sensor code "bible" that explains what these codes mean. Maybe I am missing some crucial download??

My bike is running poorly, like it is missing. I've already changed the plugs and checked the injectors. I have already rewired the camshaft movement sensor, the wire had been cut and I thought that was the problem. I don't see a fault reading, but I also don't see any engine report showing the current status of this sensor. Is there any GS911 readings of this sensor?

I read the explanation of the two Lambda sensors - however there is nothing that will tell me where the problem is on my bike - is it a coil i.e. electrical problem, or is it a plugged injector? Since I have installed this GS911 I am not any more knowledgeable about the condition of my bike. If you are telling me I still have to change out the coils and the injectors (without even knowing if there is anything wrong with them) then this product is useless.

All I'm asking is for a user manual or spreadsheet that explains what the codes mean....I assumed this would have been provided with the product...did I just buy an expensive paperweight?  :-[

WayneC

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 03:36:50 AM »
The GS911 can only provide information and fault codes within the capabilities of the design of the ECU's. If BMW did not build reporting into the hardware design and then monitoring of the hardware within the ECU firmware then there is little any diagnostic tool can do

Fault codes are built from a series of fields such as location, component and fault, these numbers can vary from model to model as to how BMW derives them so there is no single large list of codes for all models, the earlier the model the simpler the way the codes are derived.

If there are no fault codes on the machine then look at the real time data recording and do a run to confirm the sensors are operational

effisland

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 04:24:45 AM »


So I can appreciate getting this kind of information, and see some wide fluctuations over the course of about a minute of rough running. So, what does the high readings for Llambda voltage indicate?

Basically, is a lack of fuel in one cylinder causing the misfire or is it the lack of fire in the coil or spark plug?

WayneC

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 04:42:37 AM »
Ah, interpreting real time values is the art and I wont claim any great ability in it, particularly on a model I dont know well

Lamba though is only telling you the result and lambda is only relevant up to an RPM set in the ECU which is model dependent and mainly used on constant throttle, there is another field which tells you if it is active

In real time values is there a field for cam shaft sensor on your model ?

Personally I would look at adaptions and see what adaptions can be reset as a starting point where there are no fault codes showing and rest adaptions, re run the procedure to create a new adaptions table then work from there

effisland

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 05:35:53 AM »


Here is another interesting table.

No one has yet answered the question the existence of a manual with the GS911... information about what this data means...

For example, ignition angle - what does that mean? It goes from -30 when there is 0 load to +41

There are two 'knock sensors'. Is one of them the camshaft movement sensor? What are the range of values and does a high value mean knocking? Is knocking the same as misfiring?

WayneC

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 06:10:17 AM »
No manual will assist in interpreting real time data it is the province of the pro mechanic and they struggle at times, we are all learning

What I do see in the data is a difference in knock sensor readings between cylinders which would suggest an imbalance and poor combustion on one cylinder

You can read a little on the basics here
http://www.tridon.com.au/products/Tridon/35/327717/engine-management/410420/knock-sensors

Re ignition angle these machines use variable ignition timing speed/load dependent and the info is showing it is working

Re camshaft sensors, some machines use 2 sensors, a crank sensor and a cam sensor to determine ignition timing others like the 650GS use one sensor.

effisland

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 11:54:42 PM »
Interesting you would provide a link to an outside vendor. That website also provides no explanation of specifications, as in 'this product measures misfire in readings from 0 to a maximum 500. Consistent measurements of +/- 50 away from normal indicates a knock (misfire)'.

Its kind of a nifty toy that we are still guessing its purpose and mysterious uses!

Jughead

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Re: Camshaft sensor readings on F800GS & WTF
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 02:23:52 PM »
Effisland, I get the impression that you are expecting the GS911 to act as a magic wand on your bike, telling you exactly what is wrong, why it is wrong and how to rectify it.

Sorry to disappoint you, but, that's not going to happen.

As WayneC has tried to explain, the GS911 can only reflect the error codes the ECU/BMS has stored.  These are all set by BMW, internally in your bike's ecu and NOT the GS911.

If you have a mechanical problem such as a broken piston ring or bent valve, the GS911 has no way of "seeing" this.  Similarly, the GS911 has no way of determining whether a spark plug is dead or not.  It will also not be able to tell you whether the injector is blocked.  Some level of mechanical expertise is required in conjunction with the use of the GS911 as is some knowledge of how the sensors function (as in the link WayneC posted). 

The readings from the GS911 can give us a clue as to what might possibly be wrong.  For example, a cylinder that's temperature is very much different from the other cylinder could point to a cylinder that is running too lean,  Yes, that could indicate a blocked injector, but the muck in the injector cannot and will not generate an error code for you to see with the GS911.  It could also indicate that you have a blown head gasket, but again, a blown head gasket doesn't generate an error code.

Yes, it is interesting that WayneC posted a link to an outside vendor.  It is just as interesting to note that none of the sensors on your BMW are made by BMW.  They are all sourced from companies that actually manufacture sensors.

The same can be said for your brakes.  They will most likely be Brembo Brakes, as found on BMW, KTM, Honda, Suzuki etc etc.  Just because it is on your BMW doesn't mean it was made by BMW, but, I degress ....

It would be far more useful if you plotted the values you have presented in chart form.

For example, it is very difficult to see whether your lambda sensor is working from the chart you have posted.  It is much easier to see it like this:



As for the codes and what they mean, you will have to contact BMW for that.

Have you done a compression test on the motor? 
Have you done a leak down test on the motor? 
Have you checked valve clearances?

If so, what were the results?