Author Topic: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS  (Read 3982 times)

h_c_82

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 08:54:17 PM »
Neither of it. It is this one:

https://www.obd-2.de/shop/fahrzeugmarke/bmw/71/bmw-motorrad-adapterkabel-10-auf-16-pin

Maybe the pin connection is not wired the way the GS911 wants to have it.

WayneC

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2018, 03:29:44 AM »
Many of the ICOM-D adaptor cables available on EBay & around the web are poorly made with Chinese clones of the Kostal 10 pin round connector and some do have incorrect pin outs, The 1150GS has the ABS on pin 2 of the 10 pin connector so check that it goes to pin 8 of the OBDII plug

h_c_82

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2018, 07:17:39 PM »
Good Info! I checked it and its correct ABS Diag pin goes to Pin 8 on the OBD2 side. So the hardware seems to be in order. I am running out of ideas...

WayneC

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2018, 03:21:35 AM »
Since the adaptor cable pin out is correct I would check the continuity of the harness from diags socket back to the ABS unit, beyond that I could only assume the ABS is still not initialising fully & hence not communicating which can occur with the earlier ABS systems

Nicol Carstens

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 11:42:47 AM »
Any of the guys from Hexcode on this forum that can give me an answer?

Holger

Apologies for arriving late to the party. I will work with the support team here at HEX to see what we can do to assist. Sincere thanks for the support provided by the community to date on the topic.

Nicol

h_c_82

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2018, 12:18:16 PM »
 :) thank you

Nicol Carstens

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2018, 08:40:48 AM »
Many of the ICOM-D adaptor cables available on EBay & around the web are poorly made with Chinese clones of the Kostal 10 pin round connector and some do have incorrect pin outs, The 1150GS has the ABS on pin 2 of the 10 pin connector so check that it goes to pin 8 of the OBDII plug

Good advice. But it contains a typo, or some counting error that is critically important for this ABS to communicate on KLine-2. On the OBDII plug KLine-2 is on pin 15. Not 8. If it is on 8, it will not work. <= UPDATE/EDIT: There is more to the story. See the post by StephanT towards the end.

I have done testing on our own R1150GS. The ABS responds on KLine 2 on our bike. 

Good Info! I checked it and its correct ABS Diag pin goes to Pin 8 on the OBD2 side. So the hardware seems to be in order. I am running out of ideas...

This is wrong and very important. Here with the full mapping of the pins for the sake of anyone else struggling in future:

ROUND BMW 10-Pin ==> Standard OBDII (as used on GS911 USB G2)
 
Pin 1 ==> Pin 7 (KLine 1)
Pin 2 ==> Pin 15 (KLine 2)
Pin 4 ==> Pin 4 (Chassis ground)
Pin 6 ==> Pin 16 (VBat)
Pin 7 ==> Pin 6 (CAN High) <== not applicable to your current problem
Pin 9 ==> Pin 14 (CAN Low) <== not applicable to your current problem
Pin 10 ==> Pin 1 (VIgnition) <== not applicable to your current problem

Irrespective of how you count, I can't see how one can get to pin 8 on the OBDII? Per the official structure of the pins, it is definitely to be labeled pin 15.

I would highly recommend using the HEX cable if in doubt. I have seen low-quality cables cause a lot of confusion and frustration. Trust me: we not trying to sell you a cable to make money :-) We doing our best to make the debugging easy!

Regards

Nicol

PS: If ever anyone ends up struggling with a R1150GS with no spark, and you have attempted service functions on the bike (and failed), give me a shout. It is very important (as per the instructions) to ensure that all service functions run to completion. A topic for another thread - if required.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 12:33:09 PM by Nicol Carstens »

WayneC

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2018, 09:00:43 AM »
Carsten

OBDII spec is for L-Line on pin 15, not K-Line
15 - L line of ISO 9141-2 and ISO 14230-4

The BMW spec from theor older documentation was for OBDII unspecified 2nd K-Line
8 – K-Line 2 (Secondary vehicle Electronics)

Unsure where the thought 15 would be used for the 2nd K-Line has come from, could you enlighten everyone ?

Nicol Carstens

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2018, 09:32:22 AM »
Carsten

OBDII spec is for L-Line on pin 15, not K-Line
15 - L line of ISO 9141-2 and ISO 14230-4

The BMW spec from theor older documentation was for OBDII unspecified 2nd K-Line
8 – K-Line 2 (Secondary vehicle Electronics)

Unsure where the thought 15 would be used for the 2nd K-Line has come from, could you enlighten everyone ?

Thanks for the feedback Wayne. The wiring diagram I have for our cable is pin 2 round BMW to pin 15 OBDII. I can confirm that is what our design looks like. I checked with our HW design lead - he confirmed the pins. It was my understanding (and I might be wrong) that KLine 2 equals L-Line.

I have only worked on helicopters and BMW bikes (and missiles). I'm not too familiar with the OBDII standards. Let me go check with the team.

In the meanwhile, I can confirm with 100% certainty: if pin 2 on the BMW round pin does not go to pin 15 of the HEX device, a R1150GS with ABS on KLine 2 will not communicate. FOR SURE  ;)

Be right back!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:37:25 AM by Nicol Carstens »

Nicol Carstens

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2018, 09:55:19 AM »
The BMW spec from theor older documentation was for OBDII unspecified 2nd K-Line
8 – K-Line 2 (Secondary vehicle Electronics)

Unsure where the thought 15 would be used for the 2nd K-Line has come from, could you enlighten everyone ?

Once again: appreciate your feedback. And I can now see where the confusion comes in. And I can confirm: if the cable Holger has takes pin 2 of the BMW round plug to pin 8 of the USB G2, it will not work.

L-Line is K-Line with extended bandwidth. If you stick to the standard K-Line bandwidth, there is no reason not to populate pin 15 as a second K-Line channel? In our GS-911 the second channel of K-Line communicates on pin 15 of the OBDII connector. That is a fact. I have the wiring diagrams in front of me. But I fully get that there is a difference between L-Line and a second K-Line channel if you consider the ISO standards (and both 2 and 4 wheel vehicles).

For future reference then?
  • I strongly suggest selling/purchasing the HEX adapter cables when required.
  • K-Line 2 vs L-Line requires more careful documentation in our system?
Does that help? Please do not hesitate to add or correct. It is great that we have a community of informed users!

With thanks

Nicol

StephanT

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2018, 12:04:25 PM »
much ado about nothing... ;D

The OBD-II spec on the connector  (SAE J1962 and equivalent ISO/DIS 15031-3) specifies that pins 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 16 are defined and all the others are open to the manufacturer's discretion to use for whatever they please...

you are right in that pin7 is K-line and that 15 is L-line... according to these specs...

now the question is what is an L-line? well, during the ISO9141 days, it initially was used as a "wakeup line", so the diagnostic tool would wakeup the correct ECU with an address (normally a 5 baud address) on the L-line and there after all further comms would be on the K-line...

So after some time, the control units become more and more and the bus-loading of the ECU's became too much to handle on one line and many of the European manufacturers split the comms into two separate lines, and as the L-line already had most (if not all) of the physical capability (in most diagnostic tools) to handle said comms, the natural progression was to use pin 15 as the 2nd K-line...

now you have to remember that it is up to the OEM to do with pins 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13 as they see fit... ons some of the older BMW *CARS* pin 8 was used as an additional K-line, on some of the Opels it was pins 12 and 13...  but this was on cars...

BMW bikes never used the OBD-II connector till recently and all new bikes that do use it don't have a pin 8 at all...

HEX has been manufacturing Diagnostic tools since 2000 - for cars, mostly European cars, so the bottom line is that on the round 10 pin plug there are 2 k-lines, and if you use our OBD-II diagnostic tool (which has it's to K-lines on pins 7 and 15 so it can talk with Porsche, Bentley, Audi, VW, Seat, Skoda, Volvo etc), then we just have to make sure that our adapter connects those two pins to the correct pins 2 and 10 on the round 10-pin connector....

The result is that default diagnostic pinout is to have the two K-lines on pins 7 and 15 and that is what our tool does - remember we manufacture diagnostic hardware for *many* other brands too... for much longer than we have manufactured for BMW bikes and that's why *our* adapter for use with *our* HEX Diagnostic tools is the way it is... it is correct for *our* devices  :)

Remember, the ICOM was specifically designed for BMW cars... and in order to get it to work with the 10pin round connector of the bikes (that followed later), they had to manufacture and adapter that would route the ICOM's K-lines to pins 1 & 2 of the 10pin connector... which is why it is the way it is....  ;)

Just for interest sake, pin 8 is used for a completely different purpose these days (enabling DoIP - Diagnostics over IP) - even on BMW vehicles...

hope that clarifies the issue...

best
Stephan


« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 12:16:31 PM by StephanT »

WayneC

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2018, 01:44:23 PM »
Thanks for filling out the history & the broader industry use of both the 2nd K-Line and the Hexcode hardware & firmware Stephan, it explains it well

h_c_82

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2018, 08:08:09 PM »
Hey,

I have a story to add to this topic. After clarifying that the adapter cable was the problem I purchased a cable from Hexcode via the german distributor. It turned out that this cable is also wired incorrectly. Pin 2 does not go to Pin 15! I informed the distributor and they promised me to look into it. But I thought this might be interesting for all of you. Hexcode, are you aware of this problem?

h_c_82

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2018, 08:09:07 PM »
By the way, excellent support from Hexcode so far on this problem. Thank you!

WayneC

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Re: R 1150 GS MJ99 GS911 USB Gen2// No connection to ABS
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 03:32:57 AM »
Hey,

I have a story to add to this topic. After clarifying that the adapter cable was the problem I purchased a cable from Hexcode via the german distributor. It turned out that this cable is also wired incorrectly. Pin 2 does not go to Pin 15! I informed the distributor and they promised me to look into it. But I thought this might be interesting for all of you. Hexcode, are you aware of this problem?

That is interesting, I would contact Hexcode support directly to let them know      https://www.hexcode.co.za/contact-us-1