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annual update fees

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FortyZA:
I too was one of the originals who purchased his GS911 before the Enthusiast and the Prof version and once I did an upgrade, I could only do 10 bikes instead of many. Now, they want to charge for upgrades. When you compare exchange rates from one country to another, $50 is expensive as is almost 1/6th of what I paid for my unit.

What I originally paid for and what I have now is 2 completely different things, yes I appreciate the newer bikes / models, however I can only do / handle 10 bikes. I am not happy with this but like most other things, it will be implemented anyway and to hell with what our views are against this.

rideaway:

--- Quote from: Paul90 on November 15, 2013, 01:32:17 PM ---This is a difficult one isn't it ?

At the moment the feedback on the GS911 and it's ongoing support is really, really good and IMHO well deserved.
It has to be funded to work, no doubt about that.

However, once you start charging for updates many people (perhaps myself included) may pass on that because we have old(er) bikes and are running them on a budget.  What we have today is "good enough".  Once people start passing on the upgrades little problems will creep in due to OS, driver changes, etc as always happens with older software.  So the (almost 100%) positive feedback may get erroded, just because not everyone is on the latest version.  People with problmes will be berated with "buy the update!" if that doesn't solve their problem, they will feel agreaved.

Of course there is also a cost in collecting the revenue and making the product secure so only those that have paid get the updates, etc.

We have seen Apple make bold moves in this space to ensure people are always running the latest software wherever possible (and perhaps using that to drive subsequent hardware upgrades).

You might want to consider a voluntary donation scheme - easy to admin and zero enforcement costs + lots of willing donations due to the great service.

Perhaps a charge for the "Pro" devices, people making a living from using your work should perhaps give a little back ?

Perhaps a charge for the active support - calls / mails to the helpdesk, etc rather than just use of the software.  I guess the majority of users are "self supporting" with the help of the internet ;-)  Others may just go straight to the heldesk with the most minor of problems and that costs HEXCODE money.

Perhaps only supporting some of the new, more advanced features on the newer (WiFi ?) hardware to encourage people to upgrade.  You need to produce in volume to keep costs down and upgrades would help in a limited market, you can't support the old hardware / software forever with an indentical feature set.  Perhaps bug fixes and "maintenance" only for old hardware rather than new features.

Perhaps a charge to add newer BWM models ?  I gues that's where most of the development cost is.

No easy answers but you have a great customer following and support.  In a limited market, maintaining that support is ultimately the key to success.
I guess you've stuck with the "free upgrades" model for so long becasue it has worked so well in terms of customer feedback / satisfaction.  If it's not broken, then plug in the GS911 to make sure ;-)

Best of luck for the future whichever way you decide to go.

Paul

--- End quote ---

Paul has said it much better than I would be able to. I just want to add - What a great company and great guys that run it, and what better way to get people to love a company than to offer all the free updates and support. I think these guys have paid there dues and probably think it's about time to make some money for all there hours of hard work. I can't blame them and hope it all works out the best for everyone. Keeping the costs down and options open will ensure the people with limited income will stay loyal. I met the 3 guys that run this company at the National in Salem. They have done an amazing amount for free and do deserve to make a decent income for all there hard work.

All the best in the future for all of us.

Dean

Jos:

--- Quote from: StephanT on November 16, 2013, 01:43:28 AM ---So, I did a quick search and got the numbers for BMW Motorrad, vs BMW cars, vs VW group  and I've summarised them in a table below...
(now make sure you sit down before studying this table...)

ManufacturerBMW MotorradBMW+MiniVW+Audi+Seat+Skoda2012 vehicle sales (annual report)106,3581,841,6117,305,000Volume factor11769ToolGS-911bluBavarian Technic EnthusiastVCDS (VAG-COM)Tool price$349$287349VIN limit103unlimitedBluetoothYESNoNoMobile versionYESNoNo* Cost multiplier  -  $4,969$23,970** Difference amortised as
annual update fee at $49***  -  101 years489 years
NOTES:
* Assuming we have the same market penetration, then this is what we would need to sell each GS-911 for, in order to make the same sales turnover as the comparative tool
** Assuming we keep the current sales price and make up the difference to sales turnover (to the comparative tool), at an annual fee of $49, then this is the amount of years of updates it would take to reach the same sales turnover
*** $49 is used as an example only, as it shows the "best case scenario" for amount of years (i.e. with a smaller fee the years would simply increase)

I hope this creates some perspective  ;)

--- End quote ---

I wonder if somebody really studied this table.

If Hexcode could sell the same number of diagnostic tools for BMW motorcycles compared to tools sold for cars, there would be no problem in offering free updates.
It also looks like nobody ever had a look at the pricing and update cost of other alternative BMW motorcycle diagnostic tools.
Compared to the competition, the GS-911 is a bargain.
@Stephan: maybe you could put some examples on the forum.

I bought a Bavarian Technic Pro tool in 2009 for my 2 BMW cars (an E93 and a F11). Price: 675 EUR ex 21% VAT.
If you read the site of BT, it all looks very promising.
Reality: bad support, nearly no updates and new functionality, very slow when resetting fault codes of all modules, the real-time values interface is a mess, coding is possible with the Pro version but is not documented at all, and a lot more I can comment about. But since there wasn't a more affordable tool on the market, I bought one and live with the limitations for the time being.
The latest beta release is from 7 june 2012. There hasn't been a new version since and no info about new versions coming.
And Durametric hasn't a support forum and e-mail list.

If I compare this with Hexcode, there's a world of difference. There have been problems with development and there were periods not much changed.
But the last years there have been a lot of improvements and new functionality to the product.
Support is excellent, both to distributors and end-users. There is a forum and mailing list, both monitored by Stephan and Kobus. Customers can give feedback and Hexcode listens to their customers.
And all this for a tool of $ 299. One maintenance visit to the BWM dealer costs more.
Over here, BMW dealers charge up to 50 EUR to readout a bike with the BMW diagnostics tool. I even know about a BMW dealer who charges his own technicians to use the BMW diagnostic tool to read-out there own bike in there own free time.

All of you who use a commercial anti-virus software on there PC, how much do you pay each year for an update? Do you discuss this with Norton or G-Data or F-Secure or whatever brand you use? Do you mail them updates should be free forever, since you paid for the original product?

It looks like many of you have no idea what support and development cost.
I'm a distributor of the GS-911 and also have an IT company. If I look at my margin and the free support I offer to GS-911 customers (including taking over there pc remotely and installing the software and even sometimes solving there pc problems if things don't work the way they should with the GS-911) compared to what I charge my IT customers for support, I would better stop selling GS-911's.

But since I'm a BMW enthousiastic and hate the monopoly of manufacturers like BMW on bike (and car) maintenance tools, I'll happily sell GS-911's.

Best,

Jos

StephanT:

--- Quote from: FortyZA on November 17, 2013, 05:41:43 PM ---I too was one of the originals who purchased his GS911 before the Enthusiast and the Prof version and once I did an upgrade, I could only do 10 bikes instead of many.
--- End quote ---
Well, if you think back, before we implemented the Professional vs Enthusiast, the GS-911 had only the functionality to:

* read ECU information on every control unit
* read and clear fault codes on every control unit
* read and display real-time data for the EnginesI'm not sure whether you noticed, but even the Enthusiast version can still do ALL of the above on an UNLIMITED number of bikes... so you have not lost anything...


--- Quote from: FortyZA on November 17, 2013, 05:41:43 PM ---Now, they want to charge for upgrades. When you compare exchange rates from one country to another, $50 is expensive as is almost 1/6th of what I paid for my unit.
--- End quote ---
you purchased a device that reads and clears Fault codes and reads and displays Engine realtime values... and you've gotten 100 times that functionality for free since...

Also what most people seem to miss is that from the date of first sale of the very first GS-911 on 12 January 2007, we sold it as:
One year free updates for the Windows™-based (Windows™ XP SP2, Windows™ Vista, Windows™ 7, Windows™ 8 ) GS-911 software
...which means there have been 6 years of bonus updates since....


--- Quote from: FortyZA on November 17, 2013, 05:41:43 PM ---What I originally paid for and what I have now is 2 completely different things, yes I appreciate the newer bikes / models, however I can only do / handle 10 bikes.
--- End quote ---
Indeed... see my comment above... probably 100x more functionality now...  :o


--- Quote from: FortyZA on November 17, 2013, 05:41:43 PM ---I am not happy with this but like most other things, it will be implemented anyway and to hell with what our views are against this.

--- End quote ---
Why?, you don't have to buy an update!... not sure how many bikes you have or what bike models... but most of the existing bikes are pretty well covered... so in theory if you don't change you're bike, there will be almost no reason to upgrade... So what's the problem?

best
Stephan

ska:
I am happy with this solution because it will increase the features available for our bikes now out of production rather than abandon the search in favor of new models.

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