Author Topic: Engine Remaping  (Read 17022 times)

marki_gsa

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 08:34:57 PM »
I think it is a matter of misinterpretation, or misunderstanding...

I don't know of anyone who currently flashes the BMSK through the diagnostic port. They all do it by opening the ECU and reprogramming the whole flash with a BDM...

that means the whole flash is written... hence the "Whole flash is replaced"... but that does not mean the whole flash is new...

there will/could/should be a Copyright issue... but i don't want to go into that now...

best,
Stephan

I think this is a reasonable interpretation of what is happening Stephan.

Sorry the warranty part was meant for a comment further up and not for your hp2 specifically.

Don't get me wrong, I know he (hilltop) is doing good work and it's definitely a good way to go, possibly even the best way to go unless you want to fiddle yourself. He has many happy customers and I haven't heard anything bad. As with any tuner though I believe there could be a little snake oil in there as well just to sweeten the deal. Nothing bad or dishonest just maybe glorified a little. :)

WarthogARJ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 10:47:23 PM »
Yes I am about 99% sure they do it by pulling the BMSK module: Max says that's what he does, and I did not ask Hilltop this but will do so.
And yes, I now suspect they do not actually replace the flash with completely new firmware.
But as you say, add some more maps.

I think their main customers are guys with Japanese superbikes with more HP that my HP2 has cubic centimeters....and maybe these guys don't really ask too many technical questions when they are promised some extra power.....

But the company seems to be an honest crowd with a good reputation: and I know of BMW riders (on the UKGSer forum) who liked the job.
I will call them up again and attempt to get some more details.

Thanks!
Alan

Haakon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +8/-1
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2013, 03:10:41 AM »
If this was a reply to my input:
Not at all what I was thinking of. A few companies sell programmed EPROM chips for direct replacement.
That IS the easiest, cheapest and (almost) only way to do this.
The EPROM chip itself cost in the region of 5- 10$
What cost is to write the program (maps and other stuff)
The programming itself is also very cheap once the code development is done.

I do not think there will ever be a copyright issue.
2 German firms (that I know of) do sell "modified" chips.
It would be very difficult to prove "they" just modified the original maps(s)
-----------
YOU know this :-)
Anyways, it is NOT a GS911 issue or topic.
(I pray it might be, in the future, IF you have the time to incorporate a remap function)
God bless you all - the GS911 crew!
---------------
A modification to my former posting.
 BMW do remap- (never modify- its always a completely new map) via the diagnostic connector.
BUT!!! To do that with the GS911 would cost so much in software development than it not possible.
Development cost is minimal compared to the risk doing so.
IF a (GS911) remap failed a owner would be "stranded" with a dead bike.
My guess is BMW would refuse to even try help...
         
Guess I
I think it is a matter of misinterpretation, or misunderstanding...

I don't know of anyone who currently flashes the BMSK through the diagnostic port. They all do it by opening the ECU and reprogramming the whole flash with a BDM...

that means the whole flash is written... hence the "Whole flash is replaced"... but that does not mean the whole flash is new...

there will/could/should be a Copyright issue... but i don't want to go into that now...

best,
Stephan
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 04:01:41 AM by Haakon »
2000 F650-GS

StephanT

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 398
  • Karma: +17/-2
    • HEXcode
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 09:50:38 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I know he (hilltop) is doing good work and it's definitely a good way to go, possibly even the best way to go unless you want to fiddle yourself. He has many happy customers and I haven't heard anything bad. As with any tuner though I believe there could be a little snake oil in there as well just to sweeten the deal. Nothing bad or dishonest just maybe glorified a little. :)

Just for the record, I have nothing against remapping... especially when a professional does it... Due to the strict EU3 regulations there is a lot more that can be had from a stock engine, including a smoother ride... that surging of the boxer motor at around 5000rpm if memory serves, is where some of the regulatory checks are specified... i.e. pass the test at that rpm and you're good to go.. which means that a lot of vehicle are running leaner there, or at least uncharacteristically different ;-) ...which is itself is a worthwhile fix...

StephanT

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 398
  • Karma: +17/-2
    • HEXcode
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2013, 10:00:20 AM »
If this was a reply to my input:
Not at all what I was thinking of. A few companies sell programmed EPROM chips for direct replacement.
That IS the easiest, cheapest and (almost) only way to do this.
The EPROM chip itself cost in the region of 5- 10$
That still holds true for up to the HELLA ECU's, (BMSC and BMSC2), like yours Haakon, but on the BMSK range the flash is part of the processor, which is why the guys reprogram with a BDM (a tool that connects to the programming/debug pinouts of the processor in order to flash a new image file onto the processor)

I do not think there will ever be a copyright issue.
2 German firms (that I know of) do sell "modified" chips.
It would be very difficult to prove "they" just modified the original maps(s)
Actually not so difficult.. you read the Firmware from the chip and do a checksum/signature over the fixed portion (that does not contain learned or personal data like VIN etc)... if for a specific version these checksums do not match, then the firmware was modified...

Development cost is minimal compared to the risk doing so.
IF a (GS911) remap failed a owner would be "stranded" with a dead bike.
My guess is BMW would refuse to even try help...
         
I agree... and the even worse is letting a user decide on custom values... fueling is one thing.. but timing is a completely different kettle of fish...

However, if the bike is out of warrantee, I see no reason why the owner could not / should not be allowed to mod the vehicle...

best,
Stephan

WarthogARJ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Engine Remaping
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2013, 02:43:38 PM »
What you do does seem to depend on your goals, and how much input you want to have yourself after our upgrade: if you can further tweak it.
My mains aim are to smooth out the power curve, and increase fuel efficiency.
I don't really need any more power: I probably have too much...:-}

This topic is related to the GS-911: as the HexCode site shows, you can monitor before and after intervention, then example was adding a PowerCommander on the GSX bikes.

There's a University Mechanical Engineering contest in the UK about making go karts powered be motorbike engines: they modify the engine management software either directly on the modules, or on PowerCommander add-ons. I think I'll go have a chat to them. I don't think they use BMW engines, seems Aprilia, Ducatti and KTM.

But in my case, I think it's obvious that whatever route you go, you need to use a dyno to optimize things. And a knowledgeable person.

So you will be paying for:
- any hardware you add (PowerCommander etc)
- software/code/map added (I think is included with the PowerCommander)
- dyno time and expertise of whoever helps you

I'd rather not to a remapping and THEN decide to go the PowerCommander route.

And sure, whatever you do, you need to be able to revert to original settings.