General Category > Engine related issues
2009 R1200GS Surging Terribly After Throttle Body Sync
higgins.andrew.r:
I'm having a surging issue after a throttle body synchronization on a 2009 R1200GS. Initially, the idle was fluctuating from 1000 to 1400 RPM. It was time for regular 6Kmi service so I performed a throttle body sync using a twin max after adjusting the valves - TDC was correct at time of adjustment. I adjusted the right side cable (the correct side to adjust) and the left side cable (the wrong side to adjust) because the idle was not dropping from 1400 RPM. I wasn't aware that the bike would automatically adjust the idle speed.Not sure how to gauge the slack, is it just the gap between the 2 throttle cable nuts on both sides?
Soon afterwards, surging became evident.
I bought a GS 911. Since owning the GS 911, I've reset the idle actuators, checked all live function test of the bike (all fine), performed a GS 911 throttle body sync (multiple times), and reset adaptations.
Surges terribly between 2,000 and 5,000 RPM at all speeds. The RPM in all gears will rev up to 6,000 or so before "catching up" it feels with the fuel delivery. Takes so long to move from a stop.
I'm a bit at a loss when my Additive Trim Bank 2 (Left hand cylinder?) is reading +3,000%. Does this indicate some major vacuum leak and the computer is trying to send a ton of fuel to compensate for all the air? I wasn't getting that same reading 2 months ago. I have a stripped valve cover bolt on the Bank 2, but never had an issue with oil leakage. I'm wondering if that could really be bad enough to suck that much air into the system.
Also, not sure what to make of the O2 sensor readings dead lining.
The attached excel workbook, god willing you all can open it, shows a few dates where I ran the bike and collected the data.
Jughead:
Hi Andrew
You say the surging started after a throttle body synchronization. Was it DIRECTLY after the sync or did it come on gradually?
Note: ALWAYS do an Adapation Reset after a sync.
There are a few things you can look at, and no, the stripped valve cover screw will not introduce air into the system or have any effect whatsoever, beside possibly leaking a little oil.
1. Did you tamper with the idle stop screws at all? Those are the small screws under the plastic caps.
2. Are the idle actuators correctly plugged in?
3. The freeplay on the throttle cables. No, it is not "just the gap between the 2 throttle cable nuts on both sides". It is the distance that you can move the cable casing up and down without the cable core moving the butterfly.
4. Do you possibly have a crack in the rubber intake manifold?
5. This statement concerns me: "The RPM in all gears will rev up to 6,000 or so before "catching up" it feels with the fuel delivery." The way that is worded makes it sound as though the clutch is slipping, which is an entirely different issue.
6. Lambda voltage 2 is not correct. It would not appear that the sensor itself is faulty, just that the mixture control is having a problem of some kind and cannot get the mixture right.
So, here is what I would do.
1. Check the battery terminals and make sure they are clean and firmly connected.
2. Check Sparkplug condition as well as all 4 stick coils. If you have a mate with a similar bike, borrow the good stick coils in order to eliminate those.
3. Run and Autoscan and ensure that there are no errors.
4. Correct the freeplay in the cables. I would in fact screw the cables in all the way so that there is no way that they can interfere at this point. In other words, you will have a LOT of slack in the cables. We will correct this later.
5. Connect the Twinmax, start the motor and see what the readings are. Remember that on the R1200, there is nothing you can adjust at idle! That is what the idle actuators, working in conjunction with the Lambda sensors, are for. If the idle is rough and won't stabilize, and the lambda sensors are not bouncing up and down, stop and go back to the basics.
6. While the motor is running, spray some Quick Start or similar product (even spray deodorant will work) around the intake manifold/throttle body joint. If there is a significant change in engine pitch, idle speed or roughness, you have an air leak. Do not even attempt anything further until that is sorted.
7. Check valve clearances. Make sure they are all exactly correct. Also make sure there is not an old feeler gauge stuck in there. May sound strange but I have found those on 2 occasions where the previous technician forgot to remove them after the adjustment.
8. Remove and thoroughly clean the idle actuators and the bores they fit into. Use some Carb Cleaner for this. Just remove the rubber O-ring first as the Carb Cleaner will chew it up. Do not try to activate them outside of the throttle body and they will fall apart.
9. Refit and start the motor and get readings from Twinmax. If the readings are still way out, and idle still rough, do a compression check and a leakdown test. Leakdown test will tell you if you have a leaking valve or simlar problem.
10. If all is well and idle is smooth, you can now sync the throttle bodies. First adjust the LHS cable casing to have about 2mm slack. Fire up the GS911 software and use the Syncronize function. Then using the throttle, bring the revs up to about 3000 rpm and check the twinmax. (It help to have a healthy fan on the motor at this point to create some airflow) Adjust the RHS cable to give you a balanced reading on the Twinmax.
11. Once done with the sync, once again reset adaptation and all should be well.
Hope this helps.
higgins.andrew.r:
Thank you so much for your thoroughness. I think this thread will serve as a great guide for many others down the road.
To answer your questions:
The surging came on gradually and never seemed to change regardless of all the throttle body adjustments and GS911 actuator resets. It's primarily an issue at idle and I believe I may have a lead thanks to your guidance on line 2 part 1.
I do not recall turning the idle stop screws as I understand these are set from the factory.
I do not see any cracks in the intake manifold.
You know, the day after I posted this I was coming up the slope of my parking garage and couldn't muster the power to get out! So yes, you got the major issue identified in line 5 part 1. I've owned a few bikes in my life, but never held onto one long enough to see the clutch go out. The slipping feeling (engine continuing to rev up with the clutch released) was new to me, and at only 28,000 miles I never expected it to go bad so soon. I suppose city driving and perhaps my clutch play needs to be taken into consideration.
Clutch:
The other day I pulled the clutch out and I got nothing but carbon dust. The clutch feels like a paper wafer, and from what I can see - the pressure plate and housing cover have some moisture burned onto them.
I assume this is from oil spitting in from the main front seal behind the clutch housing? Not sure yet. I'm having a guy at work drill some holes in an iron bar so I can bolt it to the housing cover to stabilize it in order to remove the bolts.
I brought the clutch parts, as seen in the photo, to the local BMW motorcycle shop to see what parts they'd consider putting back on the bike. They said they always replace the pressure plate, clutch plate, and housing cover along with the seals every time. That wasn't convincing to me, but I also don't have experience with reassembling a bike after replacing the clutch to realize I should've replaced everything. I was hoping to get your take on the condition of my pressure plate and housing cover abrasive regions. After thinking about it, I'm planning on replacing both regardless, but to have confirmation that they're toast would put me at ease.
Idle Actuators:
As pictured, you can see the left idle actuator plug casing has broken off and the connection is a bit loose of course. This part appears to clip on and off and should be an easy replacement (if only I could find the part). It's not listed in the BMW parts catalogue and an individual buy. This will be something I test thoroughly when everything is reassembled.
I will most definitely refer back to your guidance in part 2 once everything is put back together and I can focus on the cylinders.
Thanks again for your time and consideration.
Jughead:
Having had a look at the photos, I would most certainly replace the pressure plate and housing of that clutch. It is badly burned, with many blue (high) spots which would indicate those areas to be VERY hard, which would in turn create uneven wear on the clutch plate. Looking at it with a magnifying glass you will most likely see lots of small cracks in the cast iron, similar to those in the pic below.
WRT the badly running motor, I must emphasize the importance of clean and well connected battery terminals! Also a battery in good condition. I have had a number of bikes that run VERY erratically, idle rough, lack power, and stall every time the throttle is closed. Most have been due to a bad battery or bad connections on the terminals.
WRT the idle actuator plug, the part number you are looking for is "83 30 0 402 340". This is a repair plug and can be purchased from BMW.
higgins.andrew.r:
Thank you for the clutch analysis and idle actuator part number.
I'll look into a new battery as my current one has about 3 years on it. I was having an issue last winter where it'd make an initial attempt to crank, pause for about 1 second, then crank successfully. I cleaned the positive starter and battery terminals and had some degree of success.
How do those spots appear on the clutch plate? As mentioned, the casing was only full of carbon powder. There was no moisture that I could see. I'm also a bit skeptical of replacing the shaft/rear main seal and counterbalance seals as they don't appear to have any issues. I purchased the crankshaft seal 11 11 8 551 418 SHAFT SEAL - 65X83X8 and the counterbalance seal 10 11 11 7 721 848 SHAFT SEAL - 25X37X6,5
but not sure if I should tamper with something that doesn't appear broken / something I don't have the tools for at the moment. Would you have an idea as to what the lifespan of the 2 shaft seals is? I'd hate to miss the opportunity to replace them, but I'm not sure I want to risk the process of drilling screws into the seals for the removal, and then failing in some small way to seat them just right. It's pretty difficult to find a great tutorial on removal and installation, and from what I've noticed repROM only shows the rear main seal removal as part of splitting the engine in two.
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