General Category > Engine related issues
2009 R1200GS Surging Terribly After Throttle Body Sync
Jughead:
The blue spots are created by the slipping clutch, the friction of which creates extreme heat. this ends up actually "heat treating" the metal, the process in this case hardening the metal. As the entire unit is not being baked in an oven or forge, it is not possible to get a uniform temperature throughout the entire area of the housing or pressure plate. The irregular heat pattern is what leave the irregular "hardness pattern" (for want of a better description) on the metal.
This chart can tell you roughly what temperature was reached on the various areas of the metal.
I normally leave the crankshaft seals alone. I have only ever had 1 bike with a leaking crank seal so they are not problematic. You need special tools to fit the seal anyway and I would not attempt the job without these.
The balancer shaft seal however I would replace. They have a tendency to leak, especially if the bike stands for long periods. The subsequent oil that leaks out usually gets flicked around and ends up in the clutch, causing it to slip, which puts you back to square 1.
This is not a difficult replacement. Just unbolt the balancer weight, pull it out, pull the seal using the process you mentioned, and refit the new seal, pushing it in to be flush with the outer motor casing. You cannot really get it wrong as there is a bearing just behind the seal and the worst you could do is push the seal a mm too far and get it against the bearing, which is not really an issue either. Replace the balancer weight (it can only go on one way) and re-torque the bolt.
On the gearbox, check the input shaft (the one on the front of the box) for play, which would indicate a buggered bearing. Also the seal on that side of the shaft. Gearbox oil could also leak out onto the clutch via that seal.
Then check the rear seal of that shaft, where the clutch slave cylinder is attached. It is a very small seal and they often leak. Oil gets trapped in that area and then travels along the clutch actuating shaft and also ends up on the clutch.
I usually cut a small groove in the casing below the clutch slave cylinder to drain any oil in the area and prevent it travelling forward to the clutch. Do it while the gearbox is out, like so:
higgins.andrew.r:
Finally got some parts in yesterday. I spent the whole night getting as far as I could. Clutch replacement is easy enough. I took your word on the counter balance seal which was also very simple. All it takes to remove it is a screwdriver prying at the seal with a piece of wood or another screwdriver as a fulcrum.There were two tricky parts to putting the bike back together after detaching the rear frame. 1) setting the transmission back into the engine, and 2) putting the frame back on the bike. The transmission was difficult to set into the engine mounts. The top left mount would be perfect and aligned with the clutch, but the bottom right would be a few mm up or down and visa versa. I realized it's much easier to slowly and evenly take turns screwing each fastener in little by little and continuing this until everything set in. Getting the final drive splines connected was the hardest part the putting the frame back on. The trick there was to take the rear wheel off and try again. splines connected on the first thrust without the wheel. Can't really do it with the wheel on unless you have a hoist.
So I was hoping to have everything done this evening, but I'm wondering if my clutch slave cylinder (output cylinder clutch on Max BMW) is bad. I'm not seeing any apparent leakage, but the center hole where the push rod sits wobbles / rocks around about 2mm in every direction. I was wondering if that's in the design of slave cylinders or if this one needs to be replaced. I don't recall a wobble in the past. The slave cylinder feels a bit tight / getting resistance when I try to reinstall it. Theres about a 1/2 inch gap to close before it seats onto the transmission and I'm not trying to force it on. If the wobble is ok, then perhaps I might need to bleed the slave cylinder a little as to reduce the resistance. Any thoughts appreciated.
Jughead:
--- Quote from: higgins.andrew.r on December 02, 2016, 02:28:49 PM ---There were two tricky parts to putting the bike back together after detaching the rear frame. 1) setting the transmission back into the engine ...
--- End quote ---
I use 2 long bolts (about 200mm) with the heads cut off. These i turn into the 2 upper bolt holes in the motor. The gearbox is then hooked onto these bolts and slid forward. Then just a matter of selecting 6th gear and turning the output shaft to get the input shaft splines to line up. Once they are lined up, the gearbox slides home, the middle bolts inserted and the upper headless "guide bolts" removed and the actual bolts fitted.
--- Quote from: higgins.andrew.r on December 02, 2016, 02:28:49 PM ---... and putting the frame back on the bike.
--- End quote ---
I never entirely detach the rear frame, but rather loosen it and pivot it upward on the upper mounting bolts.
--- Quote from: higgins.andrew.r on December 02, 2016, 02:28:49 PM ---Getting the final drive splines connected was the hardest part the putting the frame back on. The trick there was to take the rear wheel off and try again.
--- End quote ---
Correct, the wheel needs to be removed.
--- Quote from: higgins.andrew.r on December 02, 2016, 02:28:49 PM ---So I was hoping to have everything done this evening, but I'm wondering if my clutch slave cylinder (output cylinder clutch on Max BMW) is bad. I'm not seeing any apparent leakage, but the center hole where the push rod sits wobbles / rocks around about 2mm in every direction. I was wondering if that's in the design of slave cylinders or if this one needs to be replaced. I don't recall a wobble in the past. The slave cylinder feels a bit tight / getting resistance when I try to reinstall it. Theres about a 1/2 inch gap to close before it seats onto the transmission and I'm not trying to force it on. If the wobble is ok, then perhaps I might need to bleed the slave cylinder a little as to reduce the resistance. Any thoughts appreciated.
--- End quote ---
No, all is good with the slave cylinder. If no leakage is apparent, just put it back on. The resistance is normal. There is a spring behind the piston. This will be pushed back as you are fitting it. Just incrementally tighten the 2 bolts until the slave cylinder is all the way home
higgins.andrew.r:
I'll be sure to keep an eye out for a couple 200mm bolts. Another tricky thing, I thought, was estimating the placement of the clutch plate splines when sandwiched between the clutch housing plates - as to receive the transmission splined shaft. Kind of like docking a space shuttle to a space station. I just eyeballed it and tried to get an equal radius of clutch around the clutch shaft hole. I'll definitely consider the frame pivot move next time.
So I put everything back together last weekend and was mostly amazed by the higher quality sleep I was getting when it was all said and done.
I followed your throttle body sync instructions and I can hardly feel it running at 4K RPM. Very smooth.
The only issue I found was that my rear brake pedal went to the floor after riding around the block a few times. I could see leakage coming from the metallic brake line port at the ABS block under the tank. I had to take the tank off and make sure the threads were properly fit and all is good now. I get an occasional toxic burning oak smell still, but definitely not as frequently. I'm not well accustomed to different burning smells. I know WD-40 smells a little sweeter. I just can't tell what I'm smelling is either remnants of oil somewhere or the clutch. Maybe its brake fluid from the previous ABS block leak.
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