Author Topic: 2000 1150GS Rough Running  (Read 22839 times)

ihmsakiwi

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2000 1150GS Rough Running
« on: December 13, 2015, 09:02:02 PM »
5 fault codes found:

Hello,

New to the GS911. I have a intermittent issue usually bought on I when bike is hot. Did a diagnostic yesterday on return from a 160 kilometer ride where it started running rough in the last ten k's.
My son, a diesel mechanic suspects the coil? 
Does the below report point the coil or more likely the TPS??

Any help gratefully accepted. Peter.



821 Hall sensor 1, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
288 Throttle Position Sensor, Internal Fault on Upper or lower Potentiometer Slider.
The fault is not present now.
304 Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.
The fault is not present now.
901 Hall sensor 2, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
4400 Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached
The fault is not present now.

Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2015, 11:04:33 AM »
5 fault codes found:

Hello,

New to the GS911. I have a intermittent issue usually bought on I when bike is hot. Did a diagnostic yesterday on return from a 160 kilometer ride where it started running rough in the last ten k's.
My son, a diesel mechanic suspects the coil? 
Does the below report point the coil or more likely the TPS??

Any help gratefully accepted. Peter.



821 Hall sensor 1, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
288 Throttle Position Sensor, Internal Fault on Upper or lower Potentiometer Slider.
The fault is not present now.
304 Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.
The fault is not present now.
901 Hall sensor 2, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
4400 Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached
The fault is not present now.

Hi Peter

You can ignore the 821 and 901 errors for the hall sensors if the motor was not cranked or running during the test.

I would attend to the lambda sensor, which appears to be faulty, although this will not necessarily result in the rough running motor.

The TPS however is critical to the smooth running of the motor.  Have you checked the adjustment?

To check the operation of the TPS, connect a digital Multimeter to pins one and four of the plug, loosen the two screws holding it in place and turn the ignition on.  You should be able to a reading of between roughly .01V and .8V as you rotate the TPS within the limits of the adjustment range.  If you don't, the TPS is most likely faulty.

Adjustment of the TPS is a bit of a black art which I can explain to you in detail.  However, we just need first to determine that the unit is operating as it should.

Another thing to look out for is an air leak at the intake manifolds.  Also check the condition of the spark plugs.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 01:42:54 PM by Jughead »

ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 08:10:03 AM »
Hi Jughead,

I now have a bike with no spark to either plug.

I took it for a short ride and it ran fine. When I next went to start it absolutely nothing. Starter motor running but not firing. Pulled a plug lead fitted a spare plug but no spark from either side.

Have done the following with the aid of the GS911;
TPS balanced.
HES checked out fine. Re-set using the GS-911.
I am now only getting the usual HES 901 & 821 fault codes when scanning the bike.
Not sure where to go now?

I have also checked the battery and it is at 12.5V, 12V when key turned on and 10.5V when key turned to start.
I checked the Coil and it is up to spec when tested with a multimeter.

Help!!





Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 09:00:16 AM »
Hi Peter

Pull the two injectors but leave them connected to the fuel line.  Face them outward and crank the motor over.  If you have fuel mist spraying from the injectors, your Hall sensors are fine. If not, my money would be on disintegrated wiring behind the HES.

Unfortunately it is (supposed to be) heat resistant silicone insulated shielded cable which is rather hard to come by.

ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 09:45:57 AM »
Thanks Jughead,

I will do this first thing tomorrow morning as it is just starting to get dark.

The fact that the HES checked out when tested with the "Oilhead Timing Test Box" and reset with the GS-911could it still be faulty?
I also checked the wiring as per procedure outlined by Dana R Hager and the wires inside the outer sheath looked fine with no degradation visible. I rewrapped with silicon tape rated to 260C.
Peter

ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 12:04:58 AM »

Coil checked out as per spec.

 Detached both injectors and turned key and got good fuel flow from both, so not fuel.

 Hi Jughead,

I have just bought / ordered a new Hall Effect Sensor from Dan Cata and this will land here in NZ at under half the price as getting the part from one of the BMW agents here in NZ and there would have been a three to five week wait as they need to fly one in from Germany!!

 Hell I hope that it fixes the issue but I suppose at least that should be one more thing I should not have to worry about for the next 100,000K or so.

 Peter
.




Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 08:36:56 AM »

Coil checked out as per spec.

 Detached both injectors and turned key and got good fuel flow from both, so not fuel.

 Hi Jughead,

I have just bought / ordered a new Hall Effect Sensor from Dan Cata and this will land here in NZ at under half the price as getting the part from one of the BMW agents here in NZ and there would have been a three to five week wait as they need to fly one in from Germany!!

 Hell I hope that it fixes the issue but I suppose at least that should be one more thing I should not have to worry about for the next 100,000K or so.

 Peter
.

Hi Peter

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to get at.

The one sensor on the HES plate triggers the spark, the other triggers the fuel pump (and I think the injectors).  When I asked you to check whether you had fuel mist from the injectors, it was a test to check whether the HES is working, which in your case appears to be working fine.

Hi Peter

Pull the two injectors but leave them connected to the fuel line.  Face them outward and crank the motor over. If you have fuel mist spraying from the injectors, your Hall sensors are fine. If not, my money would be on disintegrated wiring behind the HES.

I would be looking at the input trigger wire to the coil or possibly spark plug leads.  You may have had two plug leads failing in quick succession, thus your original problem of rough running and now no spark.

Note that both plugs fire simultaneously. (Compression and Exhaust stroke)


ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2016, 08:52:30 AM »
Thanks Jughead,

I will do some more checks tomorrow as you suggest.
I went with a new HES as I am not sure of the service history of my bike as it has had multiple owners and the service history is sketchy. At least with a new HES I can hopefully cross that off the things to replace or worry about. New plug leads are my next purchase. Peter

ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2016, 04:42:14 AM »
Hi Jughead,
As discussed I am currently in a no-spark situation.

What sort of GS-911 message could I expect to see if either of the following was present?;

No power to the coil.
Faulty spark plug leads causing no spark.

Peter


Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2016, 08:10:22 AM »
None at all. Not the fault of the GS911, but rather the ECU's inability to be able to detect a fault. Remember that the GS911 only displays errors that are provided by the ECU.

Since the ECU has no ability to interrogate the trigger to the coil or the plug leads, you would have to do that yourself.

In the same way you tested the coil earlier, you need to test it again via the plug leads. First test the leads individually. I think you should get a resistance of around 10k. Secondary of the coil, output to output is around 220R so testing the coil, plug cap to plug cap should be around 10.2k.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2016, 08:25:37 AM »
Thanks Jughead.
Can you be a little more precise as to what I should do? I am new to this multimeter testing.
Thanks for being so helpful. Peter

Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 09:05:02 AM »
Will draw you a diagram as soon as I get home. Much easier that way. Do you know someone with access to an oscilloscope?


« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 03:15:17 PM by Jughead »

Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 01:41:26 PM »
Herewith the diagram of where to test. Multimeter set to ohm scale.

Test leads as per dotted lines will test secondary winding of the coil.IIRC should be around 220R. EDIT - Sould be around 13k.

Test leads as per solid lines will test coil, plug leads and plug caps.  You can also test the individual plug leads on their own. IIRC should be 10k.

Also have a look here: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj18qnsnYvKAhUBThoKHbEFBqUQFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNG6FoVzCoysArINAeaaSYKZyBZd_w
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 03:43:12 PM by Jughead »

ihmsakiwi

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2016, 03:03:25 AM »
Thanks again Jughead for the clarity of repy.

I checked each spark plug cable and got the following readings;
Left Hand cable; 5.49k Ohms (.004M Ohms)
Right Hand cable; Would not give reading using the k Ohms scale and on the M Ohms scale would not settle on a number but continued to run up and down the scale from 10 to 18 M Ohms??

I suspect these are kaput!!

Peter

Jughead

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Re: 2000 1150GS Rough Running
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 08:49:10 AM »
RHS definitely!  I'm not sure if they should be 1k or 10k, maybe someone else can clarify.  Either way, the readings should be steady.

Ii would replace both anyway as a start.



« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 10:35:52 AM by Jughead »