Author Topic: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector  (Read 5845 times)

zamzon

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CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« on: March 23, 2015, 11:06:41 PM »
Is a real (BMW) CAN bus supported by the GS911 or just the K line?

Is it possible to communicate with the internal ("high speed") can bus (for example of the R1200GS 2012), when wired to the 10pol diagnostic connector Pin 9 and 7?

Thanks.

Thomas


WayneC

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 05:02:34 AM »
The GS911 and GS911 Bluetooth are K-Line only, The GS911 WiFi is K-Line and CAN-Diag

When thinking about CAN BUS there is a difference between CAN BUS and CAN Diag, perhaps not the best to wire CAN out to the diags socket

The person I am aware of who has done the most extensive work around the BMW CAN BUS is CBDane over on the K1600 Forum

http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-maintenance-do-yourself/3440-canbus-adventure-begins.html
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 05:04:17 AM by WayneC »

zamzon

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 08:55:22 AM »
Thanks. I read about the "CAN bus adventures on the K1600"

If I knew before, I might have bought the newer interface, but I never thought, that THE CAN ONE AND ONLY CAN BUS INTERFACE for the R1200GS in fact has none.

But on the other hand the new one has no BT (I think) and with WLAN during riding I have bad experience (because passing by to may WLAN networks, disturbing the on board one to transfer live values).

Thomas

WayneC

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 09:02:32 AM »
With the WifI so far I have had no interference from other devices  when recording real time, if it proved a problem I am sure Hexcode would address it in some way. Why BMW did not implement a K-Line to CAN interface in the BMS is a good question, another good question is why they did not retain the K-Line for engine/ABS electronics as they did in the cars

kobus

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 11:16:09 AM »
Why BMW did not implement a K-Line to CAN interface in the BMS is a good question, another good question is why they did not retain the K-Line for engine/ABS electronics as they did in the cars
AFAIK, there are laws (for environmental reasons) governing the OBD spec on cars (and thus the reason for retaining the K-line on cars because it is part of the spec), but these laws do not apply to motorcycles.
---
R1200GS Adventure (personal weapon of choice)
... and then the company fleet.

OomD

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 11:37:25 AM »
Why BMW did not implement a K-Line to CAN interface in the BMS is a good question, another good question is why they did not retain the K-Line for engine/ABS electronics as they did in the cars
AFAIK, there are laws (for environmental reasons) governing the OBD spec on cars (and thus the reason for retaining the K-line on cars because it is part of the spec), but these laws do not apply to motorcycles.
Yes there are laws, but those laws do not specify that the K-line interface has to be used. In fact, many modern cars have started using the CAN bus on the OBDII diagnostics connector years ago, as was actually required by the Europeans.

kobus

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 12:29:06 PM »
It does. The law says you have to implement the OBD spec - and K-line is part of the spec.

The point is that cars have to comply with ODB and bikes do not.
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R1200GS Adventure (personal weapon of choice)
... and then the company fleet.

WayneC

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 04:16:38 PM »
I noticed in some Euro countries that while OBD was not mandated for the bikes, the bikes became caught up by annual emissions checks that are part of rego inspections. Always meant to look into it further but there are so many other things to do other than reading dry regulatory docs  ;D
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 04:18:46 PM by WayneC »

OomD

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 05:59:37 PM »
It does. The law says you have to implement the OBD spec - and K-line is part of the spec.

The point is that cars have to comply with ODB and bikes do not.
Yes, the law says they have to implement the OBDII protocol. But, there are 5 different physical layers they can choose from:

1. KWP2000 protocol over K-Line, used by most manufacturers, possibly in conjunction with the L line for device addressing.
2. VPW protocol - used by older Ford and General motors and variants thereof.
3. CAN high speed
4. CAN low speed
5. Variants of the CAN but with 29-bit ID instead of 11-bit ID

All of these have to implement the J1979 comms protocol on top of their physical layer. And the J1979 is the mandatory part. However, manufacturers are free to use any of the physical layers... until 2008 that was when Europe deemed CAN a minimum necessity.

So, CAN is a requirement for european vehicles.

kobus

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2015, 08:18:59 AM »
... but "vehicles" do not include motorcycles. Maybe it's because there are 2 wheels less :)
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R1200GS Adventure (personal weapon of choice)
... and then the company fleet.

OomD

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Re: CAN bus wired to Diagnostic connector
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2015, 03:18:41 PM »
... but "vehicles" do not include motorcycles. Maybe it's because there are 2 wheels less :)
;D