Author Topic: R1100S no start  (Read 1399 times)

FBT80

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R1100S no start
« on: July 24, 2023, 01:32:06 PM »
Help!!! 2003 R1100s w/ABSII. Chasing a no start situation that started after parking on a trip and never started again. I have: Replaced the Hall ( frayed wires), replaced the fuel pump, pump plate tested well) I have spark, I have fuel to the injectors, nothing coming out of the injectors. I have checked all fuses, I switched both injectors for known functioning ones, still the injectors are not triggering. Nothing shows up in the GS-911 other than Hall faults (because the engine doesn't run) ECU test passed, cycle the fuel pump passed, Hall sensor test passed..........

Jughead

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2023, 02:24:29 PM »
Check that you reconnected the fuel lines in the correct place.

The line from the pump (pressure) goes to the lower of the two lines that disappear between the airbox and the battery.

The upper pipe is the return from the pressure regulator back to the tank.  If you have them swapped over, you will have no fuel from the injectors.

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2023, 02:41:20 PM »
Good tip, but I had installed quick disconnects a while back, so impossible to mix-up. It's as if the injectors will not open. Also checked the pistons with a bore scope to see if they were holed or had no compression, but both are fine and when I pulled one injector to verify they weren't spraying almost sucked my finger into the injector hole, so yeah I have compression.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 03:05:37 PM by Frank Byron Tucker »

Jughead

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2023, 08:16:03 PM »
Are all te fuses in tact?  Also check (and maybe swap out) the relays.  I know there is a fuse and relay that controls the Motronic box.

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2023, 10:41:55 PM »
Thanks Jughead for trying to help, as far as I know all fuses look good, the GS-911 passed the ECU test, the Hall test and said the pump passed as well. Starting to think I'm missing something obvious. I'll try and identify the ECU fuse and see if I missed that. The only 2 fault codes were the hall sensor because the engine wasn't running. But it said to crank the bike and they could be cleared anyway. I did that and now have no faults...and still no boom boom. When I pulled the new injectors to replace with the old ones that I know work, the injector fuel line pissed out fuel so I know fuel is getting to the injectors.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 10:43:29 PM by Frank Byron Tucker »

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2023, 10:47:53 PM »
In the obvious section, the side stand is up and I have a fresh battery and it sparks so the kill switch isn't the problem. I'm going to try retiming the Hall using the GS-911 and see what that does.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 02:13:48 PM by Frank Byron Tucker »

Jughead

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2023, 09:36:00 AM »
Have you resolved the no start issue, FTB80?

I have been wracking my brain to think of what the issue could be.  There are a few tests I would do if the bike was here in my shop, but a little difficult on-line.

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2023, 01:59:40 PM »
Thanks Jughead for sticking with me. Here is where I am as of this weekend. I've switched out every fuse with new ones. I've verified that the injectors are spitting out fuel on crankover. I have spark ( used new plugs and saw spark on each but to me not very good spark for new plugs, but there). I've attempted to set the hall via GS-911.

Here's how that went: Once again cycled the fuel pump, activated the tank valve...all passed. Now on to the Hall. On "Hall setup" you first rotate the hall slowly CW by hand until sensor #1 goes from :inactive to active, then you continue to rotate until the second sensor lights...that's it, and they did. No what then. just "observe". Moving into the Hall adjust, instructions say to set at TDC, (determined by a dial indicator), I have one somewhere but just started at my TDC mark. then you are to rotated the engine CCW to a stated degree and there the sensor must be active. Problem is, with the brand new sensor set anywhere near TDC stays "Active" from just before seeing :"S" till the TDC mark just leaves center in the window. Adjusting the hall to any position never turns the Active light off.....WTF!!!

Also, when I used a LED timing tool made to time this Hall for this application, I would get the same results (adjusting the Hall plate would never turn the light out.)
On the good side, perhaps by replacing all the fuses, I do have my injectors splitting fuel. Pulled the rubber covers of the injector electrical connections and verified each is well connected and wiggled the wire to see if has a short somewhere on the wires, but they looked good.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 02:09:46 PM by FBT80 »

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2023, 06:27:12 PM »
just tried this:
On the 1150/1100S: Rotate the crank by hand to a little before the 'S' mark (5° BTDC) on the flywheel
Turn the ignition key on - the fuel pump will cycle normally for 1 sec
Rotate the crank very s-l-o-w-l-y CW by hand until the fuel pump cycles again
The crank is now at the hall sensor trip point - in this case that is also the static timing point
Look at the flywheel marking to see where the static timing is set - should be "OT"
Adjust if necessary.

First time, it clicked ( can't hear the pump, but could hear the solenoid click it happened before OT, so I slammed the HALL as far left as I could and tried again, this time it clicked with OT just above center in the window...still no start.

Funky coil?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 06:29:09 PM by FBT80 »

Jughead

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2023, 07:59:23 AM »
You say your injectors are "spitting" fuel.  Are they actually "spitting" or is it a mist? (as in a high pressure spray)

If it is just spitting droplets of fuel, your pressure (and possibly the pump) is the issue.  It MUST be a mist.

The way I do the timing of the hall sensor is with a dial gauge.  Screw the dial gauge into the plug hole, turn the engine over and find TDC on the gauge.  Now turn the engine over to a point just before TDC, and turn the ignition on.  Slowing rotate the crank and listen for the fuel pump.  The fuel pump should kick in as the needle arrives at the TDC point on the gauge.

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2023, 11:49:35 AM »
It's spraying but not like a one ft pattern. I'll send you a spray pattern on cardboard. service@dsmc.co.za ?
I've a dial indicator for valve setting on inline 4's but I'm sure I don't have an extension that long. Will need to source. The pump is new I installed it and the old one tested good as well, as did the pump plate. I'll pull the injectors and see if the fuel rail is shooting out lots of fuel, should be a lot right? 43+PSI.

Since I can lock the engine at TDC with the bar through the locking hole, I'll try setting it at lock position, remove bar and turn CW until I hear the click.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 01:44:20 PM by FBT80 »

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start solved
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2023, 02:01:07 PM »
With great diagnostic advice from JugHead the issue was found and a theory devised. Newly installed after-market fuel pump draws more amperage than the stock 15amp fuel relay can handle, thus disconnecting the fuel pump at startup. Solution installed a 30amp relay and it seems problem is solved.

FBT80

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Re: R1100S no start
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2023, 03:14:58 PM »
...and it wasn't the problem. I got a new HES that was faulty on the fuel sensor...what are the odds?... installed a new HES replacement and bike started right up. Morel of the story is the GS-911 does not talk to the HES it only talks to ECU, both will only report that it is connected or not and when rotated if the two sensors activate or not. It only reports the condition it is presently in when asked.