Author Topic: 2010 K1300GT  (Read 1924 times)

Jughead

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2019, 06:03:12 AM »
Yes. 

Poor combustion => excess fuel in exhaust => converter doing its job burning excess fuel => lambda sensor reading 0.8V

Exactly why I replaced the coils, and spark plugs, and coolant, while I was in there.  This meant I had to acquire the vacuum tool to refill the coolant, and the proper 5/8" or 16mm plug socket (the one I had was too big).  It's not a difficult job in retrospect, but given the complexity of the machine overall, I'm a leery of having to work on it.

Now that the "work" is done, and it still runs poorly, if a idle actuator reset doesn't get it right, I'm afraid I'll have to talk to the local dealer.  The only one in 2,500 miles.  Whose parts tech doesn't return calls.  Bad sign...

What does the O2 plot (graph) look like?  Does it look like the one I posted earlier?

schuppi

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2019, 10:31:23 AM »
Hello
Here happens exactly what I always miss.
There is a problem where help is desired, but nobody sends the necessary information for such complex systems.
Auto scan with error memory and a reading .csv file are extremely helpful.
Maybe something as deposited in this post, add to a request

http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php/topic,697.msg2705.html#msg2705


A problem is quickly solved if the informations are available  :) like this:
http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=697.0;attach=376
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Wolfgang
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Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2019, 12:55:59 AM »
Jughead, I have seen the lambda values graphs for my bike in real time twice.  Once, while running properly, the value ranged up and down, same as your graph.  Later, when running poorly, the value wavered slightly around 0.8 volts.  The exhaust was clearly rich and the sensor value properly reflected that.

Schupppi, I'll post a summary of real-time values when I can.  My original post inquired whether such a summary for a correctly running bike was available.  To date no one has posted such.

Jughead

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2019, 02:28:45 PM »

My original post inquired whether such a summary for a correctly running bike was available.  To date no one has posted such.

You keep on harping on about a summary that no one can post.  I have tried to explain why no one can post it but it appears that I am not explaining it correctly.

Put simply, the values should fluctuate up and down between about 100mV and 900mV.  These values can clearly be seen on the plot if you take the time to look at it.  In other words, the values must span the green belt in the graph.

If you graph hovers at the 800mV point, your heater element is working but sensor appears not to be working.

Do you know how lambda sensors work and what their function is?

Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2019, 08:41:52 PM »
One more time.  I was looking for correct values (or range of values) for ALL parameters reported in real-time by the GS911.  Such parameters are a small subset of those observable by the dealer's proprietary software, but I'm not sufficiently informed to acquire that software or correctly install it on my laptop.

02 sensor values oscillate as was well documented in the graph you posted.  I have seen that variation using the GS911 on my bike, some months ago, but it doesn't do that now.

02 sensor function and the values it should be reporting is all over the 'net.  Yes an 02 sensor tends to fail lean, causing the ECU to richen the mixture and that matches what I observed.  But should not the ECU should have seen a P00xx or P01xx code if the 02 sensor is failed/failing?

That "your engine is running rich"  and "because your 02 sensor has failed" doesn't present the basic diagnostic link between the two conditions, which is what I am hoping to find, so as not to throw parts at the problem.  I may already have done that.

All that said, I do appreciate your contribution to the thread.  But "I are engineer" and need/want to grok the causal link between the observation (rich exhaust) and diagnosis of failed 02 sensor, since there are a good number of other possible causes.

schuppi

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2019, 08:59:31 PM »
Okay!
Just another try.

quid pro quo
lat. für „dies für das“
geben und nehmen

Thank you

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Wolfgang
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schuppi

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2019, 09:22:41 PM »
But my dear, since you seem to be unable to deliver, I will give the " But "I are engineer" a little help 8)

System Too Rich,

 Possible Symptoms

    Irregular behavior

Possible Causes

    Fuel system
    Excessive fuel pressure
    Leaking or contaminated fuel injectors
    Leaking fuel pressure regulator
    Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
    Vapor recovery system
    Air leaks after the MAF
    Vacuum leaks
    Improper seated engine oil dipstick
    Stuck EGR valve
    Oil overfill
    Cam timing
    Cylinder compression
    Exhaust leaks before or near HO2Ss.

You will be able to implement it 8)
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Wolfgang
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Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 07:56:26 PM »
We have a winner(s).  Pat yourself on the back if you thought the bike had a bad O2 sensor.  This one's for you, Gunleif.

Replaced the O2 sensor despite my doubts, and the bike started right up, idled smoothly and revved easily.  Only ran it 20 seconds as it was getting dark.

Cue the tune... "on the road again, just can't wait to get on the road again"...

To sum it up...

Bike ran poorly, suddenly, on cold startup in the afternoon.  Two header pipes cold, exhaust sooty, catalytic converter glowing. Spark plugs evenly sooty, original O2 sensor black.

GS-911 reported no codes set in ECU despite that this was probably a gross violation of emissions standards.  O2 sensor voltage steady at 0.8 or so.

Replaced coils and plugs, no change.  Replaced O2 sensor, alles gut!

Disappointed that the ECU did not detect a problem.  Good that the realtime plot of sensor voltage showed it was bad (though I thought it would fail at zero volts, we live and learn).

Replaced

Gunleif

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2019, 10:14:55 PM »
Nice  :)

Jughead

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2019, 09:55:50 AM »
We have a winner(s).  Pat yourself on the back if you thought the bike had a bad O2 sensor.  This one's for you, Gunleif.

Replaced the O2 sensor despite my doubts, and the bike started right up, idled smoothly and revved easily.  Only ran it 20 seconds as it was getting dark.

Cue the tune... "on the road again, just can't wait to get on the road again"...

To sum it up...

Bike ran poorly, suddenly, on cold startup in the afternoon.  Two header pipes cold, exhaust sooty, catalytic converter glowing. Spark plugs evenly sooty, original O2 sensor black.

GS-911 reported no codes set in ECU despite that this was probably a gross violation of emissions standards.  O2 sensor voltage steady at 0.8 or so.

Replaced coils and plugs, no change.  Replaced O2 sensor, alles gut!

Disappointed that the ECU did not detect a problem.  Good that the realtime plot of sensor voltage showed it was bad (though I thought it would fail at zero volts, we live and learn).

Replaced

That is exactly why I asked you to have a look at the O2 Graph.  That would have told you whether the sensor was working or not.  That was my first reply to your query.  Look it up.  Reply #2.

Wizwam

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2019, 10:19:59 PM »
Continued over rich mixture caused by failing coil(s) can contaminate the lambda sensor and cause inaccurate readings or even failure. Seen this before.

Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2019, 01:25:03 AM »
 :(
Perhaps so.  However, it's actually NOT running well.  When I changed the 02 sensor, I ran it for only 20 seconds and thought all was well.

Now, a week later, I've put in a Stebel horn and was about to change the oil, which requires warming it up.  So I started it... and it's just as bad as before... pulsing or "panting".  I'm severely disappointed, not least because I've now put about USD 750 in the bike, for nothing but practice.  At least the horn works, but I can only use it in the garage.  My wife noticed and suggested I not toot the horn in the garage again.

Next suspect is the idle control valve at the bottom of the airbox, which requires significant disassembly, and I'm not looking forward to removing the airbox from the rubber tubes connecting to the throttle bodies.  I understand I can use narrow screw clamps in place of the original Oetiker clamps that BMW seem so fond of.  Need to acquire some of those in the correct size, wonder what size is needed, will consult fiche.

I will post real-time log for the bike in another post.  We can all lsee it then and perhaps it will point to a sensor or actuator that's on vacation.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 02:07:44 AM by Honolulu »

Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2019, 04:25:26 AM »
Okay finally got her into the garage for a session.  All the static checks appear to be okay. 

It started poorly and if I gradually tried to increase throttle, it would die.  Sudden increase to 3000 rpm was okay but still poor running and got black smoke when revved.  I logged values for a short while.  The O2 sensor reading is at 0.9 volts, clearly it's running far too rich.  And this time, I believe the reading.

Coils, plugs and 02 sensor are new.  I need correct diagnosis and I need to stop throwing parts at this bike.

I've attached the .csv file and the Autoscan report.  Can anyone tell, from this data, why the bike is fueling so rich?

Suspects include a faulty fuel pressure regulator (fuel pressure too high?)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 04:30:51 AM by Honolulu »

Honolulu

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2019, 09:37:24 AM »
It seems there is a solution and it's largely NOT what has been considered in this forum.

The dealer hooked it up and communicated with Hans und Fritz, and as posted above, the GS-911 returned constant fuel pressure readings of about 2700 (millibars?  kPa?  psi? no one says) despite changing rpm.  However the actual measured pressure was MUCH higher, causing overfueling.

Apparently the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail was kaput. Sensor replacement requires considerable work, so I authorized the work. It'll cost about USD$1000. Despite the sensor being used in a handful of bikes since 2004, it isn't in stock, will take some 3-5 days to come in and should be installed in a day.  So, the bike will be at the dealer for about a week.

Close it out:  I'm disappointed in the advice given on this thread, in accordance with which I spent some $800 for new coils, plugs and 02 sensor, and vacuum fitting for coolant filling, which purchases that only enriched the vendors.  Now another grand for dealer work.  The GS-911 might have pinpointed the problem if only I had baseline data to compare to, but no one could, or has yet, come up with such data on the real-time functions reported.  What (expletive deleted) good is a measurement without a baseline to compare it to?  We're not mechanical mind readers nor do we converse daily with the factory.  I get that a modern machine is expected to be complex but most of this bike goes back almost 10 years.  Where's the info?  I don't hope or expect it will appear here.  At best, I got free advice and it was worth exactly that.

Jughead

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Re: 2010 K1300GT
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2019, 07:29:38 AM »
It seems there is a solution and it's largely NOT what has been considered in this forum.

The dealer hooked it up and communicated with Hans und Fritz, and as posted above, the GS-911 returned constant fuel pressure readings of about 2700 (millibars?  kPa?  psi? no one says) despite changing rpm.  However the actual measured pressure was MUCH higher, causing overfueling.

Apparently the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail was kaput. Sensor replacement requires considerable work, so I authorized the work. It'll cost about USD$1000. Despite the sensor being used in a handful of bikes since 2004, it isn't in stock, will take some 3-5 days to come in and should be installed in a day.  So, the bike will be at the dealer for about a week.

Close it out:  I'm disappointed in the advice given on this thread, in accordance with which I spent some $800 for new coils, plugs and 02 sensor, and vacuum fitting for coolant filling, which purchases that only enriched the vendors.  Now another grand for dealer work.  The GS-911 might have pinpointed the problem if only I had baseline data to compare to, but no one could, or has yet, come up with such data on the real-time functions reported.  What (expletive deleted) good is a measurement without a baseline to compare it to?  We're not mechanical mind readers nor do we converse daily with the factory.  I get that a modern machine is expected to be complex but most of this bike goes back almost 10 years.  Where's the info?  I don't hope or expect it will appear here.  At best, I got free advice and it was worth exactly that.

Honolulu, maybe you should go back and have a look at which forum this is, because clearly you have missed it completely.

This is a GS911 forum, not a mechanic's forum, not a BMW forum, not a K1300GT repair forum.  Get it?  "Where's the info?" you ask.  Why should the info be here?  The info you want has nothing to do with the GS911.

If you have questions about the GS911, this is where you come.  This is where many will use their free time to read your post and attempt to assist you, based on the knowledge of the GS911 and not your particular model of bike, despite the advice being ignored.  Yes, this advice is free, which is exactly what you were after in the first place.

If you have questions about your 1300GT, go to the 1300GT forum, or any one of the others of your choice.  Maybe that is where you will find your info.  That is also where you can leave your sarcasm and disappointment.