F650 GS R13 / 2000 / GS911 - BMS-C: reset adaptations for TPS / IAC not working

[WayneC]

I actually don't have an autoscan in hand for Jan's bike, but I constructed one from the logs. It looks like the firmware on the BMS-C in our F650GS here at Hex is 8000, while the one that Jan owns is at firmware version 5001. Do you think ECU firmware could be a problem?

Ah Jan has the original firmware version much treasured by some, it makes the 650GS rock & roll but is not actually EU compliant & should not ever have been released to market, it was the reason for the mad scramble to update all in the field & resulted in the infamous surging & stalling problems of the 6000 & 7000 firmware releases, the 8000 series is the latest & most stable but a little more sedate, FYI 5000 series is RON 95 fuel only

5000 series firmware has a lower Diagnostic Index of 02 rather than the 04 of the 8000 Series so perhaps it is a factor, unfortunately I dont have a 5000 series BMSC here to do any testing to confirm if it is a factor in the issue

[Nicol Carstens]

Wayne,

Ah Jan has the original firmware version much treasured by some, it makes the 650GS rock & roll but is not actually EU compliant & should not ever have been released to market, it was the reason for the mad scramble to update all in the field & resulted in the infamous surging & stalling problems of the 6000 & 7000 firmware releases, the 8000 series is the latest & most stable but a little more sedate, FYI 5000 series is RON 95 fuel only

5000 series firmware has a lower Diagnostic Index of 02 rather than the 04 of the 8000 Series so perhaps it is a factor, unfortunately I dont have a 5000 series BMSC here to do any testing to confirm if it is a factor in the issue

You are a walking F650-encyclopedia! Your wealth of knowledge is indeed incredible! Yes, I can confirm: Jan's bike is on diagnostic index 2.

I don't have a 5000 available either. I could try and ask the team to see if you can see if someone has uploaded data/logs from a 5000, but that would not be an easy thing to do. Sounds like a firmware upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea?

With thanks,

Nicol

[WayneC]

Wayne,

You are a walking F650-encyclopedia! Your wealth of knowledge is indeed incredible! Yes, I can confirm: Jan's bike is on diagnostic index 2.

I don't have a 5000 available either. I could try and ask the team to see if you can see if someone has uploaded data/logs from a 5000, but that would not be an easy thing to do. Sounds like a firmware upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea?

With thanks,

Nicol

Ask Stephan about Haakon, he is the reason I became involved and he put together much of the knowledge I then built on & have on line

If I was Jan I would file the 5000 Series BMSC on the shelf for now & buy a replacement on line, program it up to 8000 series for every day use, the 5000 series would be good for those silly days when burning fuel is the fun 

[Nicol Carstens]

Wayne,

Ask Stephan about Haakon, he is the reason I became involved and he put together much of the knowledge I then built on & have online

If I was Jan I would file the 5000 Series BMSC on the shelf for now & buy a replacement online, program it up to 8000 series for everyday use, the 5000 series would be good for those silly days when burning fuel is the fun 

Roger that! Will do. Thanks again. (Just had a look at your info on the F650 dash PCB level repairs: nice work!!)

Warm regards,

Nicol

[stardust_59]

Gents, Nico, Wayne -
I am currently on a business trip and was muted by very long working days.
Indeed - I actually have two of these BMS -
one on the shelf (not mine yet but owner cannot do stupid things with it)

And the one of the current bike.
here is the version info from the Autoscan:

BMS-C
ECU Id (VIN):   vvvvvvv
Part No.:   07658860
HW Version:   C2
Diagnosis Index:   2
Software version:   5001
Manufacturing Date:   1400-04-10
HWOE No.:   25399630
Manufacturer:   Hella GmbH
Data release:   50003611
VIN:   xyz
VIN model year:   2000

I dug through my logs (both Tablet and Android)....

Yessss... Got it.

And another one, as above.

The third box :

Part # 07668133
HW Version: c2
Manufacturing date 2000-05-03
Program release 8000
Date release 80003601


I will surely try to get a hold of the other box (owner willing to sell).


So - two SW v5001 boxes - one on the bike I am debugging - one on the shelf.
Another F650 (engine trashed due to incorrect valve adjustment attempt) with a BMS - SW 8000.

BMW flashed the newer SW and messed up the VIN on that bike, as it was a third party (ebay) . They did not change the VIN.
BMW told my buddy all kinds of stories . which is why the SW5001 BMS is now shelved.

Gentlemen, the treasure hunt is on.

Tally Ho ! :-)

Jan

[stardust_59]

@Wayne
- I can only second Nicol and express Kudos for confirming my suspicion.

I read about the early SW version but I did not have the SW version numbers at hand.

Indeed the SW8000 produces a pretty docile Rotax sweing machine - having nothing of the zippiness of the carburetted Rotax in the Funduro.

Thus I hope my conclusion is correct:
SW5001 BMS + new injector = Fun

Hope I am not too far off.

I would not really care abut a bit more fuel consumption, really.

Once I can get my hands on the of unit I suggest to discuss the rest in private.

cheers
Jan

[WayneC]

Jan

8000 3601 is EU, RON 95 & new injector

Part No 07658860 - 5000 3611 is EU, RON 95 & old injector

We have Haakon to thank for taking a pic of the old Moditec Dealer System screen when he first purchased his GS & was with the Dealer tech in the workshop, it had a table setting out the firmware versions/injectors for all of the single spark production, FYI the 5000 Series only went out to EU markets in the first batch of production, BMW then realised their error, there are a few here in Oz as we get EU spec machines

I am a little surprised re the Mfr Date of 1400-04-10, it is usually correct, is that a typo ?

Re a BMW updating the firmware to the 8000 series & messing up the VIN, I assume a Dealer not BMW AG ?, having a different VIN will not affect operation but it should have been easy for the Dealer to change the VIN to suit the bike, cant imagine what silly stories they would have tried telling, BMW have put incorrect/invalid VIN's in some bikes during production, we have a dual spark in that boat here in Sydney, GS911 picks up the incorrect character in the VIN the Dealer system does not hence it was never corrected to match the compliance plate on the frame

Re running 5000 series & a new injector, Haakon did try but encountered problems, he realised later he had failed to do an adaption reset/rebuild & unfortunately he did not have the opportunity to try again

[stardust_59]

Wayne,
thanks so much for the insight.
I was on tour over the weekend.
Tonight I swapped the SW5000 series BMS against a SW8000 series BMS (said BMS with incorrect VIN).

Voila - adaptation reset worked like a charm.

Also the strange behavior of the sluggish return to idle (with idle being too high) caused by the IAC has disappeared.
A new injector is underway and will be installed this weekend.

As for incorrect VIN:
Indeed this was BMW in Stuttgart Vaihingen (not a dealership but a BMW company outfit). So not a garage bricoleur.

Pending final adaptation to the new installed injector and test ride this resolves the maintenance issues for the owner of the F650 R13.

Yet I think it might be worth to have a closer look at the BMS with SW ver 5000: Data release:   50003611

Left to note that

Manufacturing Date:   1400-04-10

is not a typo.

It is as reported by the unit.
Maybe a silly programming errror in the SW 5000.

I also noted the following:
the SW8000 series BMS seems to add start functionality.
That is - when warm , just press the starter button and the engine will rev up shortly just as one would do when starting a carburetted engine. (A wee bit of throttle).

Did notice this when using the SW5000 BMS

I will get in touch with hexcode and we will see what to do with the SW5000 box. Might be some interesting forensics....

regards
Jan

[Nicol Carstens]

Dear Jan and Wayne,

It has been a pleasure doing business with you guys Very happy to read all of the happy news! To many more F650 miles!! I'm tempted to get myself one (again) after all of this. Did around 55,000km on my F650GS Dakar before she came to an unfortunate sudden stop. Never to fly again.

@Jan: Will be in touch about that 5000 software driven unit...

@Wayne: With thanks to yourself and Haakon!

Safe riding,

Nicol

[Nicol Carstens]

Left to note that

Manufacturing Date:   1400-04-10

is not a typo. It is as reported by the unit.

PS: Yes, I also noted that. And from the logs it would appear that is really what the controller is sending...