Author Topic: K1200S ODOMETER  (Read 2273 times)

martyoz

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K1200S ODOMETER
« on: August 25, 2018, 12:22:56 AM »
Folks hi from Queensland Australia !

Members at different bike forums suggested I post on here, recently I purchased a 2006 K1200S which runs like a Rocket. However after initially thinking my fuel consumption was atrocious have discovered that the Odometer is reading in Miles even though it displays KM ?????

After posting on the other Forums and taking the bike into both  BMW Dealership and an ex BMW Motorcycle mechanic shop for Diagnosis, no fault could be found or Software error seen ! WOW !

A chap in Germany sent me photos of the Front Wheel Sensor Ring, there are two used : 2005-2006 with 100 "teeth" & 2007 onwards with 48 "teeth".

My bike appears to have had the ring replaced with a 48 "teeth" ring ??? Can one of you please confirm for me that if the Software is correct then this Front Wheel Sensor Ring is the probable cause of my Odometer being incorrect ?

Cheers and thanks from Marty  :)


WayneC

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2018, 03:15:31 AM »
The first step would be to determine if the speed signal comes from rear wheel or front wheel, I am not familiar with the K1200S so I dont know which, but on other models I am familiar with it comes from the rear wheel & the signal goes first to the ABS then extended to dash on ABS equipped models

The other aspect is that if it is just a change in the sensor ring then the speedo would also display mph rather than kph which should be rather obvious so it would seem more likely to be a setting in the dash which may either be a coding parameter or a hardware link which has changed ODO reading only & not the actual speedo display.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 03:17:49 AM by WayneC »

Jughead

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2018, 01:02:06 AM »
If the ABS ring is the incorrect one, then both front and rear are incorrect.  They work together, and if they are different it is impossible for the ABS unit to determine wheel speed, with the result that you would have an ABS error as well.

Your bike is an '06 model, so most likely has servo assisted ABS, correct?  The older servo assisted ABS units use the 100 tooth ring. Gen II ABS (non servo assisted) use the 48 tooth ring.

Have you tried changing the coding from mph to kph?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 01:06:01 AM by Jughead »

martyoz

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2018, 12:30:52 PM »
The first step would be to determine if the speed signal comes from rear wheel or front wheel, I am not familiar with the K1200S so I dont know which, but on other models I am familiar with it comes from the rear wheel & the signal goes first to the ABS then extended to dash on ABS equipped models

The other aspect is that if it is just a change in the sensor ring then the speedo would also display mph rather than kph which should be rather obvious so it would seem more likely to be a setting in the dash which may either be a coding parameter or a hardware link which has changed ODO reading only & not the actual speedo display.

Wayne hi, mate two BMW trained Technicians have been unable to Diagnose the defect ??  To be honest I don't think they have a high level understanding of the Software / Computer Parameters used. I myself do not have diagnostic tool and am in the dark !

Speedo is definitely from Rear wheel and unaffected by the Front Sensor. I was hoping a Guru on this Forum would be able to confirm my theory.

martyoz

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2018, 12:51:45 PM »
If the ABS ring is the incorrect one, then both front and rear are incorrect.  They work together, and if they are different it is impossible for the ABS unit to determine wheel speed, with the result that you would have an ABS error as well.

Your bike is an '06 model, so most likely has servo assisted ABS, correct?  The older servo assisted ABS units use the 100 tooth ring. Gen II ABS (non servo assisted) use the 48 tooth ring.

Have you tried changing the coding from mph to kph?

Jughead you are incorrect, the Computer software Mathematically calculates Front pulses divided by Rear pulses. 100/78 or 48/78, the Value is then used for ODOMETER & ABS Braking Control (reaction). Rear 78 pulse sensor is all that is used for SPEEDO.

BMW Technicians don't understand the Software or Parameters and Calculations used, I have no Diagnostic Device with which to change anything !

WayneC

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2018, 12:54:13 PM »

Wayne hi, mate two BMW trained Technicians have been unable to Diagnose the defect ??  To be honest I don't think they have a high level understanding of the Software / Computer Parameters used. I myself do not have diagnostic tool and am in the dark !

Speedo is definitely from Rear wheel and unaffected by the Front Sensor. I was hoping a Guru on this Forum would be able to confirm my theory.

As Jughead has confirmed it would be coding of the dash, it is normal that the same signal is used for both ABS & speedo, re 2 trained techs not being able to diagnose, that is unfortunately too common in 650GS models which are referred to me

Can you confirm which type of ABS you have as per Jughead's post ?

martyoz

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2018, 01:56:47 PM »
Yes it has the 2006 Servo Assisted ABS.

The number crunching is done in the Computer, so regardless of the ABS or the Sensor Ring it ought to be possible to change Numeric values in the Software Parameters ?????

Put it this way, I don't have a 100 segment Ring and have no intention of sourcing one, so all I ask is how to get the numbers changed in the Calculations to ensure the ABS Reaction time and the Odometer is correct.

WayneC

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2018, 03:13:56 PM »
Yes it has the 2006 Servo Assisted ABS.

The number crunching is done in the Computer, so regardless of the ABS or the Sensor Ring it ought to be possible to change Numeric values in the Software Parameters ?????

Put it this way, I don't have a 100 segment Ring and have no intention of sourcing one, so all I ask is how to get the numbers changed in the Calculations to ensure the ABS Reaction time and the Odometer is correct.

OK, understood re ABS type, basically if the wrong segment rings have been fitted then no you wont be able to change the ODO display  but the speedo would also be reading mph

Some further thought is needed, the machine is designed to be either ABS or non-ABS so the signal to the dash is as per the signal tramsmitted by the rear wheel. The ODO then stores the count in SI units and coding, hard coded firmware or links in the dash changes the display between kms or miles

Jughead

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 06:36:20 PM »

Jughead you are incorrect, the Computer software Mathematically calculates Front pulses divided by Rear pulses. 100/78 or 48/78, the Value is then used for ODOMETER & ABS Braking Control (reaction). Rear 78 pulse sensor is all that is used for SPEEDO.


Really? 

I have a client with 2 sets of wheels for his servo assisted GSA.  The set fitted with road tyres are the original wheels off the bike and ABS and Speedo work 100%.

The minute he fits the set of wheels with offroad tyres, the ABS warning light comes on, speedo does not read correctly and odo is way out.

Then I discovered that the two front wheels have different ABS rings.  Fitted the offroad front wheel with the same ABS ring as the original wheel and everything is once again 100%.

Please can you explain why this happened, since "the Computer software Mathematically calculates Front pulses divided by Rear pulses." 

My guess is that the final drive on your bike has been replaced with one from a later, non servo assisted bike.

martyoz

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 01:38:10 AM »
OK I am an Electrical & Instrumentation Technician, have worked with very sophisticated PLC's, DCS, DIGITAL DRIVES & all associated field control devices.

The onboard Computer is just a smaller version of an Industrial control system, where software parameters can be set, changed and manipulated then the mathematics are crunched within the computer software. The wheel and final drive sensor is merely a counter, sending pulses to the computer.

If it is possible to access the Software Parameters shown in attached pics ( IF ???? ) , then it is possible to change the complete dynamics of the ABS and Instrument cluster on the bike.  Million dollar question ....... can these Parameters be accessed using Diagnostic Device ?

My Speedo is very accurate in KM ........ the ODO is reading about 60% of the actual distance travelled (ie Miles)

How do you change the ODO from Miles - KM ? Which Parameter needs to be accessed ?

Obviously the BMW Techs have DIAGNOSTIC TOOLS far more sophisticated than a GS911.

WayneC

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 03:27:12 AM »
OK I am an Electrical & Instrumentation Technician, have worked with very sophisticated PLC's, DCS, DIGITAL DRIVES & all associated field control devices.

From your work with Instrumentation you would surely know some parameters are hard coded others are changeable

The onboard Computer is just a smaller version of an Industrial control system, where software parameters can be set, changed and manipulated then the mathematics are crunched within the computer software. The wheel and final drive sensor is merely a counter, sending pulses to the computer.

If it is possible to access the Software Parameters shown in attached pics ( IF ???? ) , then it is possible to change the complete dynamics of the ABS and Instrument cluster on the bike.  Million dollar question ....... can these Parameters be accessed using Diagnostic Device ?

Well with at least 4 separate processor systems (Engine ECU, ABS, Dash, ZFE perhaps referring to "the onboard computer" is a little simplistic

My Speedo is very accurate in KM ........ the ODO is reading about 60% of the actual distance travelled (ie Miles)

How do you change the ODO from Miles - KM ? Which Parameter needs to be accessed ?

The fact the speedo is accurate in kms tells you the coding of the ODO mph/kms is solely within the dash as both are working from the same signal

Obviously the BMW Techs have DIAGNOSTIC TOOLS far more sophisticated than a GS911.

The BMW Dealer diagnostics system is not far more sophisticated than the GS911, in some respects it is more limited & more difficult to use as it is designed to be used by Techs who are not highly trained in electronics & computing, they do have the capability of programming which the GS911 does not have but the programming is to install predefined updated firmware only
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 03:29:00 AM by WayneC »

Jughead

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 06:47:02 AM »
OK I am an Electrical & Instrumentation Technician, have worked with very sophisticated PLC's, DCS, DIGITAL DRIVES & all associated field control devices.

The onboard Computer is just a smaller version of an Industrial control system, where software parameters can be set, changed and manipulated then the mathematics are crunched within the computer software. The wheel and final drive sensor is merely a counter, sending pulses to the computer.

If it is possible to access the Software Parameters shown in attached pics ( IF ???? ) , then it is possible to change the complete dynamics of the ABS and Instrument cluster on the bike.  Million dollar question ....... can these Parameters be accessed using Diagnostic Device ?

My Speedo is very accurate in KM ........ the ODO is reading about 60% of the actual distance travelled (ie Miles)

How do you change the ODO from Miles - KM ? Which Parameter needs to be accessed ?

Obviously the BMW Techs have DIAGNOSTIC TOOLS far more sophisticated than a GS911.

At the rist of sounding facetious, Martyoz, by the tone of your posts it is clear that you have far more knowledge on this subject than anyone on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) so maybe you should just rewrite all the software on the ECu, Combi, ZFE and any other controller you can find.  That way you will be able to resolve all the issues that BMW has been unable to resolve thus far.

Or you could just plug in your GS911 and change the cluster coding to Kilometers, as in the screenshot below.  But maybe that is too simple for you.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 06:48:50 AM by Jughead »

martyoz

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2018, 07:17:42 AM »
Hey now we are getting somewhere  !

Cool and thank you Jughead and Wayne for your feedback and help.

1 - I DO NOT HAVE A GS911 nor any other means of accessing / changing / monitoring the K12 Computer.

2 - Why the BMW Techs were unable to do this simple change defies description !

3 - Others at different Forums will suggest that the Odometer and Speedo are separate. The ABS Microprocessor calculates the Odometer from the count Ratios of Front and Rear wheel --- 100/78 or 48/78 or 48/48 -------- 3 different Variances used across different Models. With Rear wheel count directly for Speedo.

Am unable to attach more images for some strange reason, will send them to you guys by PM if possible.

Cheers and thanks from Marty

WayneC

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »
Hey now we are getting somewhere  !

Cool and thank you Jughead and Wayne for your feedback and help.

1 - I DO NOT HAVE A GS911 nor any other means of accessing / changing / monitoring the K12 Computer.

The answer is simple, buy one, it is clear you cant rely on techs up where you are in Oz although if you are close to Tor Motors on the sunshine coast they are good knowledgeable people with GS911 who go out of their way to satisfy their customers

As for still referring to the "K12 Computer", each of the ECU's is a processor system, so there are multiple processing systens

2 - Why the BMW Techs were unable to do this simple change defies description !

The techs should have been able to resolve it easily for you but perhaps there was some mis communication ?

3 - Others at different Forums will suggest that the Odometer and Speedo are separate. The ABS Microprocessor calculates the Odometer from the count Ratios of Front and Rear wheel --- 100/78 or 48/78 or 48/48 -------- 3 different Variances used across different Models. With Rear wheel count directly for Speedo.

There is a lot of BS on forums and it seems you have encountered a fair bit of it re how the Dash & ABS interact with wheel sensors

Jughead

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Re: K1200S ODOMETER
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2018, 02:57:20 PM »
There is a lot of BS on forums and it seems you have encountered a fair bit of it re how the Dash & ABS interact with wheel sensors

You phrase it so eloquently, Wayne!  ;D