GS-911 and ezCAN User Forum
General Category => Technical => GS-911 => Engine related issues => Topic started by: ihmsakiwi on December 13, 2015, 09:02:02 PM
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5 fault codes found:
Hello,
New to the GS911. I have a intermittent issue usually bought on I when bike is hot. Did a diagnostic yesterday on return from a 160 kilometer ride where it started running rough in the last ten k's.
My son, a diesel mechanic suspects the coil?
Does the below report point the coil or more likely the TPS??
Any help gratefully accepted. Peter.
821 Hall sensor 1, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
288 Throttle Position Sensor, Internal Fault on Upper or lower Potentiometer Slider.
The fault is not present now.
304 Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.
The fault is not present now.
901 Hall sensor 2, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
4400 Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached
The fault is not present now.
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5 fault codes found:
Hello,
New to the GS911. I have a intermittent issue usually bought on I when bike is hot. Did a diagnostic yesterday on return from a 160 kilometer ride where it started running rough in the last ten k's.
My son, a diesel mechanic suspects the coil?
Does the below report point the coil or more likely the TPS??
Any help gratefully accepted. Peter.
821 Hall sensor 1, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
288 Throttle Position Sensor, Internal Fault on Upper or lower Potentiometer Slider.
The fault is not present now.
304 Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.
The fault is not present now.
901 Hall sensor 2, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
The fault is currently present.
4400 Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached
The fault is not present now.
Hi Peter
You can ignore the 821 and 901 errors for the hall sensors if the motor was not cranked or running during the test.
I would attend to the lambda sensor, which appears to be faulty, although this will not necessarily result in the rough running motor.
The TPS however is critical to the smooth running of the motor. Have you checked the adjustment?
To check the operation of the TPS, connect a digital Multimeter to pins one and four of the plug, loosen the two screws holding it in place and turn the ignition on. You should be able to a reading of between roughly .01V and .8V as you rotate the TPS within the limits of the adjustment range. If you don't, the TPS is most likely faulty.
Adjustment of the TPS is a bit of a black art which I can explain to you in detail. However, we just need first to determine that the unit is operating as it should.
Another thing to look out for is an air leak at the intake manifolds. Also check the condition of the spark plugs.
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Hi Jughead,
I now have a bike with no spark to either plug.
I took it for a short ride and it ran fine. When I next went to start it absolutely nothing. Starter motor running but not firing. Pulled a plug lead fitted a spare plug but no spark from either side.
Have done the following with the aid of the GS911;
TPS balanced.
HES checked out fine. Re-set using the GS-911.
I am now only getting the usual HES 901 & 821 fault codes when scanning the bike.
Not sure where to go now?
I have also checked the battery and it is at 12.5V, 12V when key turned on and 10.5V when key turned to start.
I checked the Coil and it is up to spec when tested with a multimeter.
Help!!
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Hi Peter
Pull the two injectors but leave them connected to the fuel line. Face them outward and crank the motor over. If you have fuel mist spraying from the injectors, your Hall sensors are fine. If not, my money would be on disintegrated wiring behind the HES.
Unfortunately it is (supposed to be) heat resistant silicone insulated shielded cable which is rather hard to come by.
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Thanks Jughead,
I will do this first thing tomorrow morning as it is just starting to get dark.
The fact that the HES checked out when tested with the "Oilhead Timing Test Box" and reset with the GS-911could it still be faulty?
I also checked the wiring as per procedure outlined by Dana R Hager and the wires inside the outer sheath looked fine with no degradation visible. I rewrapped with silicon tape rated to 260C.
Peter
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Coil checked out as per spec.
Detached both injectors and turned key and got good fuel flow from both, so not fuel.
Hi Jughead,
I have just bought / ordered a new Hall Effect Sensor from Dan Cata and this will land here in NZ at under half the price as getting the part from one of the BMW agents here in NZ and there would have been a three to five week wait as they need to fly one in from Germany!!
Hell I hope that it fixes the issue but I suppose at least that should be one more thing I should not have to worry about for the next 100,000K or so.
Peter
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Coil checked out as per spec.
Detached both injectors and turned key and got good fuel flow from both, so not fuel.
Hi Jughead,
I have just bought / ordered a new Hall Effect Sensor from Dan Cata and this will land here in NZ at under half the price as getting the part from one of the BMW agents here in NZ and there would have been a three to five week wait as they need to fly one in from Germany!!
Hell I hope that it fixes the issue but I suppose at least that should be one more thing I should not have to worry about for the next 100,000K or so.
Peter
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Hi Peter
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to get at.
The one sensor on the HES plate triggers the spark, the other triggers the fuel pump (and I think the injectors). When I asked you to check whether you had fuel mist from the injectors, it was a test to check whether the HES is working, which in your case appears to be working fine.
Hi Peter
Pull the two injectors but leave them connected to the fuel line. Face them outward and crank the motor over. If you have fuel mist spraying from the injectors, your Hall sensors are fine. If not, my money would be on disintegrated wiring behind the HES.
I would be looking at the input trigger wire to the coil or possibly spark plug leads. You may have had two plug leads failing in quick succession, thus your original problem of rough running and now no spark.
Note that both plugs fire simultaneously. (Compression and Exhaust stroke)
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Thanks Jughead,
I will do some more checks tomorrow as you suggest.
I went with a new HES as I am not sure of the service history of my bike as it has had multiple owners and the service history is sketchy. At least with a new HES I can hopefully cross that off the things to replace or worry about. New plug leads are my next purchase. Peter
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Hi Jughead,
As discussed I am currently in a no-spark situation.
What sort of GS-911 message could I expect to see if either of the following was present?;
No power to the coil.
Faulty spark plug leads causing no spark.
Peter
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None at all. Not the fault of the GS911, but rather the ECU's inability to be able to detect a fault. Remember that the GS911 only displays errors that are provided by the ECU.
Since the ECU has no ability to interrogate the trigger to the coil or the plug leads, you would have to do that yourself.
In the same way you tested the coil earlier, you need to test it again via the plug leads. First test the leads individually. I think you should get a resistance of around 10k. Secondary of the coil, output to output is around 220R so testing the coil, plug cap to plug cap should be around 10.2k.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
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Thanks Jughead.
Can you be a little more precise as to what I should do? I am new to this multimeter testing.
Thanks for being so helpful. Peter
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Will draw you a diagram as soon as I get home. Much easier that way. Do you know someone with access to an oscilloscope?
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Herewith the diagram of where to test. Multimeter set to ohm scale.
Test leads as per dotted lines will test secondary winding of the coil.IIRC should be around 220R. EDIT - Sould be around 13k.
Test leads as per solid lines will test coil, plug leads and plug caps. You can also test the individual plug leads on their own. IIRC should be 10k.
Also have a look here: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj18qnsnYvKAhUBThoKHbEFBqUQFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNG6FoVzCoysArINAeaaSYKZyBZd_w
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Thanks again Jughead for the clarity of repy.
I checked each spark plug cable and got the following readings;
Left Hand cable; 5.49k Ohms (.004M Ohms)
Right Hand cable; Would not give reading using the k Ohms scale and on the M Ohms scale would not settle on a number but continued to run up and down the scale from 10 to 18 M Ohms??
I suspect these are kaput!!
Peter
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RHS definitely! I'm not sure if they should be 1k or 10k, maybe someone else can clarify. Either way, the readings should be steady.
Ii would replace both anyway as a start.
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Whether there is resistance in the lead will depend on whether a resistive spark plug is used
On the 650GS single spark BMW use 2 x 1000 ohm resistors, one in the plug cap and one in the coil connector and a non resistive plug
The LHS cable reading of 5k ohms may be about correct while the RHS is clearly cactus, I would be surprised if BMW used anything above 5K ohms
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Thanks Wayne.
I will order new set of leads as soon as shops open. In fact I will order ex USA tonight. Found a set for US$55 from Euromotoelectrics.
I have just done a side stand switch test with the MM. I get 0 Ohms with stand down only on one pin. The Yellow( white on my wiring) /Red combo gives no return at all but the Red / Brown does.
This is without taking the switch of the side-stand as I am without circlip pliers currently and that is the smallest circlip I have ever found on a bike.
I will read up on how to by-pass the switch in the interim.
Peter
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The Red/Brown is likely the earth return wire as brown is normally earth on all BMW's and the stripe indicates which circuit it is associated with
The bypass is likely to be Brown/Red to one of the other wires, on the 650GS you can join all 3 wires safely for the bypass
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For R1150 and R1200 sidestand bypass have a look at:
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/SSIBD.pdf
Mike
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Long winded document with butchery as their method, would not touch their methods with a barge pole, the simple way of doing it is to make a wire loop with pins to fit the sockets or even go to the car divisions and get the pins and socket bodies, on the 650GS you can use 1/8" spade connectors and I gather a fair proportion of the other models either use the same plugs/sockets or similar ones on which 1/8" spade will work
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Hi Wayne and Jughead,
Decided to change out the plug leads, HES and will look to replace the coil should I still have issues. I haven't discounted the stand switch at this stage but don't really want to cut the wiring. I will look to somehow fit connectors should it not prove to be problematic.
I will report back after my son returns from holiday to help me sort it. Peter.
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Be aware that the side stand switch/harness/socket with the red/white/brown wires is a generic item used on many models and on the 650GS the red and white wires can be reversed on some supplied to BMW, it seems to be just the way different batches were made so some 650GS owners have had to loop red to Brown and others White to Brown, I would not be surprised if the 1150 was the same
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OK.........
My son swung by on his way home from his summer break and confirmed that the one lead is definitely AWOL and the terminals in the plug that attaches to the coil is kaput. I could not pull it apart and elected to wait for my son who applied a lot of pressure before it pulled apart. One spade terminal had corroded away and the other was on its way out. This is not a water-proof plug so any moisture is going to enter down the wires to the spade terminals. I will need to two order these two spade terminals that fit into the plug ( part #1459615).
Chances of the local BMW shop having these is slim. Are these by any chance also a BMW car part?? Peter.
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Use realOEM to do a Part No Application Search, it will tell you what models (car/bike) a part is used on
While I am not familiar with the plug caps/leads on your model I can tell you that in all the years i have owned BMs I have never purchased BMW plug leads or caps, I have always purchased after market parts and mostly made up my own leads which is what I have on my Dakar, much better than BMW
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Cheers Wayne, will look it up. Peter
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Thanks everybody for your help. Bike started first push of the starter after replacing the plug leads ( got a set from Euromotoelectrics for $55) and replacing the two small metal bullet connectors in the plug that connects to the coil. Local auto-electrical store gave me the four bullet connectors for free. Went for a one hour ride and all seems well.
I have a new HES on it's way from Cata Dan which I will also install as soon as it arrives. Peter.
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[emoji106]
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Pleased to hear you have it sorted ;D