GS-911 and ezCAN User Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: StephanT on May 29, 2013, 12:50:17 PM

Title: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on May 29, 2013, 12:50:17 PM
hi All,

I would like to get an idea, how many of you have Fuel Strips (as opposed to the lever type Float sensor) ?

If you have a Fuel strip, pls post your Model i.e. 2007 R1200RT, along with your VIN pls? as well as stating whether you've had yours replaced yet...

If you don't know whether your bike has a Lever type sensor or a FuelStrip sensor, pls have a look either the AutoScan or ECU info for your ZFE control unit... under the ZFE Configuration section it will either state: "Lever type fuel sensor" or "Film type fuel sensor" ...see:
 http://www.hexcode.co.za/new-beta-version-1305-released

best,
Stephan
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: ilpo on May 29, 2013, 12:52:39 PM
Have 2009 R1200GSA, WB103800X9ZW75480

And yes, have replaced it once.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: ebbo on May 29, 2013, 10:47:05 PM
VIN WB10368005 ZM12207 Build date: July 2005 - Strip is faulty, gauge reads high and getting worse , I've no plans to replace it till BMW come up with a proper fix,

Thanks
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on May 29, 2013, 11:34:48 PM
I think then you will wait a while, as BMW has just discontinued those from the 2010 models on...

I've wondered whether one can make a conversion from the levertype float, to plug into the film strip plug in the harness and still get good accurate readings...

Someone contacted me once and told me they were busy with a film strip replacement.. I'll try and find those mails again...

just checked today.. and the pinouts to the ZFE itself are completely different... for the lever type vs the film strip... and if memory serves me correctly, the film strip is 0 - 0.5V vs. the 0 - 5V for the lever type float...

Anyone have any good technical information on how the strips work? I know they're 4 pins 2 for the "film" and 2 for the heating circuit..

I'm guessing the differences in linearity will be an issue too...  Anyway, if anyone has any GOOD references / datasheets / forum writeups.. feel free to post them here too..

best,
Stephan
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: juhhyto on May 30, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
R 1200GS -08 Strip type no faulty WB10303038ZU12095
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Websterize on June 01, 2013, 04:02:22 PM
2009 R1200R. One fuel-strip replacement. Got low-fuel light after filling up and erratic onboard computer readouts of range and fuel-level bars. Most aggravating was the false-positive low-fuel lamp. I use the tripmeter exclusively, ignoring OBC. Possible to code the ZFE to ignore the OBC?

Motorcycle Information
VIN: WB10398039ZS26507
Mileage: 15297.0 miles
Factory I-Level: K024-08-08-500
Actual I-Level: K024-10-02-500
BMS-KP
BMS type:   BMS-KP
Part No.:   7719873
Hardware Index:   10
Coding Index:   2
Manufacturer:   Bosch
Manufacturing Date:   2008-08-13
HWOE No.:   26932879
MCV:   0.6.0
FSV:   0.77.33
OSV:   2.3.1
Factory I-Level:   K024-08-08-500
Actual I-Level:   K024-10-02-500
VIN model year:   2009


No fault codes found
ZFE-High
ZFE type:   ZFE-High
Factory I-Level:   K024-08-08-500
Actual I-Level:   K024-10-02-500
Part No.:   7720220
Hardware Index:   3
Coding Index:   9
Manufacturing Date(YY/MM/DD):   2004-04-15
MCV:   0.6.0
FSV:   2.7.0
OSV:   3.3.0
Manufacturer:   Loewe Lear
HWOE No.:   26928039
Configuration   
   Speed sensor manufacturer is Bosch   
   Speed sensor type is DF11   
   ABS fitted   
   ESA fitted   
   ESA has hall sensor   
   Heated grips   
   Outside temperature sensor   
   Brake light switch status over CAN   
   Film type fuel sensor   
   Manual low beam off switch   
   Brake light type is LED   
   Rear light type is LED   
   Storage of temperature indication when engine hot   


No fault codes found
Tyre pressure only
RDC/DWA type:   Tyre pressure only
Part No.:   7720818
Hardware Index:   C3
Coding Index:   4
Manufacturer:   Schrader
HWOE No.:   26873879
MCV:   0.6.0
FSV:   2.1.0
OSV:   4.0.2


No fault codes found
CAN-Kombi-K7
Cluster type:   CAN-Kombi-K7
Part No.:   7713995
Hardware Index:   C3
Coding Index:   1
Manufacturer:   Preh
Manufacturing Date:   2008-07-14
HWOE No.:   26816223
MCV:   0.6.0
FSV:   2.2.0
OSV:   3.3.30
Factory I-Level:   K024-08-08-500
Actual I-Level:   K024-10-02-500
Assembly No.:   07714231


No fault codes found
Integral ABS 2 - CAN
Part No.:   7711978
HW Version No.:   C2
Coding Index:   0
Manufacturing Date:   2008-07-17
HWOE No.:   26865111
Manufacturer:   Continental Teves
MCV:   0.6.0
FSV:   2.2.0
OSV:   3.3.0
Free programming slots:   1
Serial No.:   687H00036
Hardware No.:   07682002
Hardware star No.:   07711978


No fault codes found
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: mogu83 on June 01, 2013, 04:25:55 PM
2007 R1200R   WB10398087ZS25141   No failures     But seems to stay on 'Full' longer than it should when I fill it all the way up.

Good luck with this.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: dbrick on June 01, 2013, 04:35:40 PM
2007 R1200R WB10398087ZS25138 30K miles no failures

Anyone have any good technical information on how the strips work? I know they're 4 pins 2 for the "film" and 2 for the heating circuit..

The most convincing forum writeup I've seen appears on this page as post #48 in this advrider thread:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758453&page=4 (http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758453&page=4)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Clem on June 02, 2013, 02:46:10 AM
2012 R1200R  WB1040009CZY77152  No Failures or issues  35000KM 
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: INlinuxdude on June 03, 2013, 08:33:49 PM
2005 R1200RT . bought used about 1.5 years ago, and my fuel strip started going out a couple weeks ago (it is currently intermittent).  I plan on bypassing it with resistors as described in the following thread (unless BMW comes out with a real solution, or someone figures out how to retrofit a float - which doesn't seem likely at this point)...

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770296&page=3

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: dbrick on June 03, 2013, 08:52:50 PM
INlinuxdude,

Instead of spoofing, you might try repair. See post #253 in this thread: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21268240#post21268240 (http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21268240#post21268240)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: INlinuxdude on June 03, 2013, 08:59:05 PM
INlinuxdude,

Instead of spoofing, you might try repair. See post #253 in this thread: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21268240#post21268240 (http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21268240#post21268240)

Thanks - I tried that b4 deciding on "spoofing"...  It's actually a broken connection in the epoxied part of the fuel strip connector that is broken - sometimes it works (and the resistence value is fine), other times after some jiggling it quits working (and resistance shows open)..  Then some more jiggling and it's ok again (and resistance is fine)...  so the ignitor trick doesn't seem to help much - I tried it a BUNCH of times though just to make sure... :)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: dbrick on June 03, 2013, 09:09:20 PM
Thanks. That makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deilenberger on June 05, 2013, 09:38:03 PM
2007 R1200R, November '06 production date.

Fuel strip
Replaced 6 times so far.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on June 05, 2013, 10:24:45 PM
ouch... didn't know you did it THAT many times Don!

you're probably tired of doing it... but SOON you'll be able to do it with your GS-911 !!!  8)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: ilpo on June 05, 2013, 11:12:56 PM
you're probably tired of doing it... but SOON you'll be able to do it with your GS-911 !!!  8)

Meaning calibration? I have switched mine without doing that and it worked out just fine.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deilenberger on June 06, 2013, 12:18:45 AM
ouch... didn't know you did it THAT many times Don!

you're probably tired of doing it... but SOON you'll be able to do it with your GS-911 !!!  8)
Luckily, I'm under the perpetual BMW fuel strip warranty. My first one failed at about 30 months, each one since then has lasted less than a year, and one was installed and was defective. So - BMW is picking up parts/labor forever..  The dealer now keeps one in stock for me.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on June 06, 2013, 04:25:04 PM
If anyone has any TB's (Technical Bulletins) concerning the Fuel Strip and Fuel strip calibration, pls let me know ;-)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Shaggy on July 06, 2013, 09:40:51 AM
I have an 09 GS, after 2 years had my fuel strip replaced under warranty, ive never really let the bike go down to less than 100 miles left well that was until a few months ago when i ran out of fuel with it reading 81 miles left! Really looking forward to being able to recalibrate
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on July 08, 2013, 09:45:35 PM
if you're using a current Beta version, use the check for updates in the About screen.. otherwise use the GS-911downloader and get the newest Beta.. it has :

best,
Stephan
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Shaggy on July 10, 2013, 08:21:15 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D Fuel strip recalibrated it was reading 122 miles left, took out the strip left it overnight then connected it all up outside the tank,  ran the re-callibration prog, once it was all back together it showed the correct level and 45 miles left, excellent  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: sq5rk on July 12, 2013, 02:04:24 PM
hi all
in my case didnt work. '09 gs, not adv. When tank is full, clock shows me around 700 or more km range. So like in adventure ? Removed strip, dried, and calibrated. Nothing has changed. Still strange reading. Any idea? Cheers from Poland - Romek
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on July 12, 2013, 06:51:12 PM
maybe the strip is damaged... remember, the calibration is intended to calibrate a NEW fuel strip when it is installed.. (as part of the installation procedure) - naturally it cannot fix a broken strip

best,
Stephan
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: sq5rk on July 12, 2013, 09:03:17 PM
well, Im afraid you are right :) So its time to buy new one. Thanks for reply.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Shaggy on July 12, 2013, 10:13:57 PM
hi all
in my case didnt work. '09 gs, not adv. When tank is full, clock shows me around 700 or more km range. So like in adventure ? Removed strip, dried, and calibrated. Nothing has changed. Still strange reading. Any idea? Cheers from Poland - Romek

Did you take the bike for a ride? mine stayed at the same reading until i put it on the centre stand started it then ran it in second gear, it then rapidly changed reading to the correct amount
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: sq5rk on July 13, 2013, 07:24:09 AM

Did you take the bike for a ride?

Yes , I did. I thought the same. ~800 km's, but nothing has changed.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Haakon on July 15, 2013, 03:02:10 AM
How do the fuel level "strip" work?
My guess is (simply explained) its a plastic strip with a low heat element on one side and a series of heat sensitve resistors on the other side.
(the heat sensitive resistors can be PT100`s or some other type.)
(why PT resistors? PT`s is easily "printed" on plastic or whatever none conductive materials)
One drop of (conductive)moisture would result in a faulty reading.
----------------
The float type sensors also use resistance to meassure the fuel level.
The huge difference is its a basic "potentiometer" type device.
The more expensive ones are actully wirewound- meaning self cleaning.
The current used is also much higher = less sensitive to "slight contamination".
------------
I am sure the CANbus will not accept a disconnected fuelstrip as it monitors both the heating and resistor part.
To bypass the heating circuit must be easy- a plain resistor of the same value as the heating element.
How get a float sensor to work and show real values...- I do not know
Sorry to waste your time,
Haakon

     


 

   
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deciacco on July 22, 2013, 08:09:51 PM
Stephan,

I was hoping you could explain the fuel strip values for me:

I've attached an image showing the reading form the gs911. The left shows the fuels strip idling while the right side shows the fuel strip being polled.

It looks like as long as the computer is turned ON there is a very minimal amount of current going to the heater. Usually, about 2.42mA. Can this vary from strip to strip? What is the "normal" value/range here? The strip heater voltage seems to be very minimal as well at 0.07V. The Fuel Sense Voltage is always 0 on my bike, I'm guessing this is for those equipped with a float, but have no idea. I don't understand the Film Sensor Heating percentage. When the fuel strip is being polled this seems to jump to 62.8%. Is this normal? Why wouldn't it hit 100%? Also when the strip is being read, the heater current jumps to 187.76mA and the voltage to 1.05V.

I'm trying to determine what these values are telling me and if they are withing the accepted ranges as I believe my fuel strip is on it's way out again.

Also, is it possible to show the resistance reading from the sensor circuit?

Thanks,

-E
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Haakon on July 23, 2013, 01:29:18 AM
I know you asked for Stephans advice- I am NOT him!
I did reply to this thread earlier and pray THAT reply did not confuse you.
I have no real information on this topic and my reply was based on "industry" use of the same basic technology.
(not used any more- "abandoned" years ago)
--------------
I am again just "guessing":
I do not think the fuel level is constantly monitored. That would steal too much computer usage.
I guess its checked/ monitored maybe every second or MUCH less.
If the engine is not running maybe its NOT checked more than once- done when the ignition is turned on??
The bikes computer is "tiny"- engine managment is more important than fuel level- thus the fuel is checked more seldom.
BUT- I may be all wrong re this!!!- I am just guessing!!! 
 
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deciacco on July 23, 2013, 03:46:04 AM
Haakon,

Thanks for your response. I have somewhat of an understanding of how it works at least based on this threadhttp://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18095884&postcount=48 (http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18095884&postcount=48), I just don't understand the real-time values from the GS-911 as the strip is being polled.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: kobus on July 23, 2013, 01:33:57 PM
I've attached an image showing the reading form the gs911. The left shows the fuels strip idling while the right side shows the fuel strip being polled.

It looks like as long as the computer is turned ON there is a very minimal amount of current going to the heater. Usually, about 2.42mA. Can this vary from strip to strip? What is the "normal" value/range here? The strip heater voltage seems to be very minimal as well at 0.07V. The Fuel Sense Voltage is always 0 on my bike, I'm guessing this is for those equipped with a float, but have no idea. I don't understand the Film Sensor Heating percentage. When the fuel strip is being polled this seems to jump to 62.8%. Is this normal? Why wouldn't it hit 100%? Also when the strip is being read, the heater current jumps to 187.76mA and the voltage to 1.05V.

I'm trying to determine what these values are telling me and if they are withing the accepted ranges as I believe my fuel strip is on it's way out again.


Normal ranges (for fuel strip):
Fuel heater current: 0- 300mA
Heater voltage: 0 - 1V
Fuel sense voltage: 0 - 0.5V
Film sensor heating (this is PWM): 0 - 100%
 62% looks normal (100% would be full on). Ultimately it's up to the fuel sense algorithm when and how it heats and measures the fuel level.
This will also vary from strip to strip (that's why there is a calibration procedure).

If your fuel sense voltage is 0V all the time, there is something wrong with the strip (sense circuit is open-circuit?).

Also, is it possible to show the resistance reading from the sensor circuit?
No, we can only show what the ZFE reads.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deciacco on July 23, 2013, 04:41:19 PM
Kobus,

Thanks so much for your response.

Quote
If your fuel sense voltage is 0V all the time, there is something wrong with the strip (sense circuit is open-circuit?).
I tested the two center leads on the strip. With the multimeter set to 20k ohms it reads 2.55. This tells me the sensor circuit is not open, but indeed the fuel sense voltage is 0V all the time.

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: kobus on July 23, 2013, 04:43:04 PM
Please attach an AutoScan of your bike, view the realtime values and then send the logs (Tools->Send Todays logs) so I can double check the fuel sense value for your particular bike.

Thanks
Kobus
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: deciacco on July 23, 2013, 07:09:38 PM
Kobus,

I sent two logs, the second one has the real time values in it. Sorry.
See attached for the autoscan.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: v-man on July 27, 2013, 09:40:02 PM
2010 R1200 GSA

WB1048001AZX65246

Fuel strip replaced ONE time
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Jughead on August 14, 2013, 10:13:29 AM
2006 R1200GSA - VIN: WB10382066ZN91388

Film Type Fuel Sensor - Never replaced.

Autoscan attached.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on August 14, 2013, 11:27:06 AM
yes, the general feeling is that this is most prominent in North America... lots of speculation.. but one of the theories is the Ethanol content...
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: juhhyto on August 15, 2013, 05:15:42 PM
I know there is not enough samples, but in Finland we have a 95E10 and 98E5. E is ethanol and 10 and 5 are %. Many drivers use the 98, engine is somewhat smoother with it, even though it is more expensive.


-juha-
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 06, 2014, 02:25:21 AM
Hi,

Just sharing my 5 eurocents;
We also have a lot of complaints of faulty film type fuel-sensors too, over here in the Netherlands.
If the bike is under warranty, 9-out-10-times the fuel-sensor will be replaced under warranty too.
However, BMW ceased warranty-replacements for a period of time due to excessive failures, so I'm told.

But often the fuel sensor ultimately keeps failing in the long run, eventually.
I have heard from users who are up to their third replacement within less then a year!

On my 2007 R1200RT the fuel level is permanently indicating full, likely because the fuel evaporated due to fuel-cap not sealing properly anymore and me not being able to ride it for a very long time.
Meaning, that the calibration is off/lost. (read: no miles ridden and fuel-level has changed dramatically, according to the "smarts" of the ZFE.

I'm also considering replacing the film type fuel sensor with the mechanism for a float-type, I can get the float-type from a scrapper for reasonably cheap. (from an 08/2010 R1200RT)

My thoughts are, as the GS911 can do the calibration, with the float-type installed (which is also resistance), I could try to get the ZFE to understand the resistance-value of the floater-type instead.

I have searched with g00gle to find if anybody endeavoured that already, but not found anything.
So, I could be very wrong.


Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: kobus on May 06, 2014, 09:26:13 AM
My thoughts are, as the GS911 can do the calibration, with the float-type installed (which is also resistance), I could try to get the ZFE to understand the resistance-value of the floater-type instead.

I have searched with g00gle to find if anybody endeavoured that already, but not found anything.
So, I could be very wrong.
You would not be able to replace the fuel strip with a float.
They operate very differently. While the float is purely resistive, the film strip has a heating element and a measuring element that is current sourced. The ZFE, cluster and probably engine controller would need to be re-coded for a retro fit to be done, but I'm not even sure even if BMW can retro fit it (otherwise they would have done it because of all the failures by now?).
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 06, 2014, 12:36:25 PM
Good point, thanks!!
And that is of course why they are also connected to different ports on the ZFE.

So, I would need to take the floater (resistor value), build electronics to convert that to current-output (read: need a small voltage) that is within the range that the ZFE expects from the film type fuel sensor.
Assuming that the floater is resistive-wise similar to the film type sensor (logarithmic or linear)

I need to put my creative cap on.

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: StephanT on May 08, 2014, 07:09:03 PM
indeed, something like that...

The bike models with Float vs Strip have different wiring harnesses.. as they use completely different pins on the ZFE..

best
Stephan
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 08, 2014, 09:29:08 PM
Thanks, I also noted that on schematics I have (from the Haynes manuals, both versions, thus also DOHC), even though their wiring diagrams are perhaps not completely accurate and/or not without faults.
(and the Haynes manuals are not fully complete/accurate either, but that is a different discussion)

In essence, it might be doable, it is a matter of how much efforts are involved.
Next to being very careful, not damaging the ZFE.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Haakon on May 08, 2014, 09:38:36 PM
Just a question: How many bikes have this problem?
If all or many of the "fuelstrip" bikes have this problem I would think some firm would see a good business opportunity?
It can not be too dificult to make a digital conversion unit to fake the strip signals, with a float sensor installed?

There seems to be a limited number of bikes that have this problem?
As others have mentioned, can it be a fuel related?
Thinking of ethanol fuels.
Water residues in the fuel.
"Old" fuel- bikes not used very often.
... whatever
Haakon
-----------------------
New reply posted while I was typing:
Please do NOT trust any of the schematics, BMW`s or others!
I have several chematics for MY bike, and all have "faults". Wire colors and whatever.
I believe BMW did modifications to the wirings more often than we change underwear!! >:(
 
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 09, 2014, 12:03:16 AM
On the "social media" that I'm active on (mostly forums for 1200GS & 1200RT) the fuel-strip failure is a hot topic, next to 2010's 1200RT switches.
(the handlebar switches also fail a lot, likely due to cracks in the flexible print to which the switches are mounted)

Fuel-strips fails a lot.
So much that BMW halted warranty-replacements last year for some time.
And probably why BMW replaced the fuel-strip with the floater-type since production-year August 2010 for the R1200RT. (just a wild guess from my side).

In the Netherlands, Ethanol is not yet commonly added to the premium (95 ROZ/RON and above), so I would rule it out that Ethanol is the culprit in our cases where the fuel-strip fails. (sometimes repeatedly).  But that is my take on that situation.

From what I have read and understood, 2 possible situations seems to be causing premature failure:
- The fuel-strip apparently have some electronics sealed at the top of the strip and apparently the sealing/encapsulation is not up to spec, causing fuel to reach the electronics and causing havoc.
I have not seen a fuel-strip in real life so I'm not sure about that.

- Miniature (micro)cracks develop along the measuring part of fuel-strip, causing disruption in the (complete) resistive path or incorrect (out-of-spec/calibrated) signals/values which the ZFE can no longer properly interpret.
From what I understand, due to mechanical load/vibrations.
This is, according to many on the different forums, resolved by micro-welding these cracks via the high-voltage output of a piezo lighter.
I know personally of a few people who had issues with their fuel-strip, build the outlined micro-welder out of a lighter and indeed resolved their problems that way.

I'm currently chewing on (read: contemplating) purchasing a complete fuel-unit with the floater-type sensor from a dismantling company to see if mechanical replacement is remotely possible and then consider what would be involved of converting the resistive output (= floater) to current-output (= fuel-strip). In very simple black-and-white it would require some voltage.
According to Ohm's Law:
U (voltage) = I (current) times R (resistance).
Current is what the ZFE expects/measures from the fuel-strip, resistance is what the floater-type will provide, so it would then be voltage to make that happen.

Mind you, from what I have read & understood from how the ZFE works with the fuel-strip, the voltage from the ZFE is modulated (PWM) and thus also the heating, and it lets to be seen if the measurements via the fuel-strip is something linear or logarithmic or something else/combination to what the ZFE interprets as the various fuel-levels.

So, it would also be the algorithm that needs to be found out when the ZFE is the fuel-strip version.

Somebody else already played with that on one of the US forums, and came up with this;
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770085&page=6 (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770085&page=6)

As for trusting schematics, wiring diagrams and so on;
I agree 100%!
I have the official BMW RepROM's and even those contain mistakes and omissions. Yikes!
Thanks for reminding me, it just turned Friday overhere, time to change my underwear again. (Joke!)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 09, 2014, 05:22:52 AM
PS: I just ordered the floater-type fuel-pump.

I can chew on it for ever, but having it in front of me will help my creative juices going.  ;D
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Haakon on May 09, 2014, 08:46:16 PM
Very good explanation "DutchMidiMan"- thanks.
Both the the probable causes, repairs and modifications.
I was afraid I had stirred up a "hornets nest" by my unqualified post re this. :)

I have no idea at all to what sort of signals are used. The industrial standard are 4 to 20 mA (0 to 20mA is used but not often)
IF BMW use a 4 to 20 mA signal range there are lots of SIGNAL CONVERTER`s that can be used.

That is the reason I wrote what I did. The strip is more linear than most common floats but the difference is academic.
Here you have a link to the first link to direct converter I found- from sliding resistor to mA output.

http://www.acromag.com/catalog/119/Signal_Conditioners__amp;_nbsp;Converters/Signal_Converters,_Transmitters/Slidewire___Potentiometer_Input

This type of converters are used all over in industries- so the price may be way too high.
I am sure cheap editions can be found! I guess a 5 to 10 % in the full tank readings are not important?
Its more important to have exact readings when the fuel level is low?
Some such converters can be programmed all over the range but they cost more.
If BMW use a value range outside of 4 to 20 mA that too can be "faked". (compensated for)

Could you or some other hook up a mA instrument so we know the range?
(We need to know the mA at full and empty fuel level- with a working strip :-)
------------------
I must re- read you post- I am too tired and have had a glass of w...ne.
Haakon

PS- I am NOT a "electronics" or automation and measurements  engineer. That said, even I manage to set up that sort of converters  :-[   

   
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 10, 2014, 03:07:24 AM
You're welcome, of course!

Recognized the signal converters!
Having family working in the process automation and having attended a few classes myself in university. However, chemistry definitely not being my thing (or mathematics to a certain extend) I figured it would not be my parse.  :-[
(although I do remember indeed 4 mA minimum, so that 0 mA would indicate a broken connection/loop, or something along those lines)

Don't worry about the hornets, all creatures are equally important on this earth.  ;)

I agree that the resistive measuring part of the fuel-strip will be likely indeed linear.
Logarithmic is usually only on the volume-knob of the radio as our hearing also logarithmic.
(and the tone-knob usually being of the linear type pot-meter)

But, the good news is that I believe the clue is being already been found with the "FuelStripSpoof_v2.jpg";
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770085&page=6 (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770085&page=6)

The 2K resistor being enough to fool the ZFE that the tank is full.
And the current being limited via the 1M ohm resistor.
(mind you: the measuring-part of the fuel-strip then needs to be disconnected as stated by the author).

But lets wait and see what the floater-type resistance-values are, it is currently underway to me.  8)

I can't take measurements on my 1200RT as the fuel-strip already failed, it shows permanent tank-full. Because most of the fuel evaporated because I wasn't able to ride a bike for a long time because of chemo-treatment and acute type-2 diabetic.  :(
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on May 10, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
And received the floater-type complete (!) unit this morning, including fuel-pump, electronics, the works.
And that only for 110 euros/152 US$/1567 ZAR.  Including shipping. :D

First, some good news;

- The floater is mounted onto the fuel-pump assembly, so it is all "one part", the floater is *not* hooked into a holder inside the fuel-tank for that matter. Unlike the fuel-strip version, that needs to be hooked into the bottom of the fuel-tank and on the top of the filler-cap.

- The connector to the floater-output (variable resistance) is the same, 4-pin connector as with the fuel-strip version, with the same pin-layout. (the middle connections are used for the sensor, and with the floater-type the two outside, remaining pins are not connected)
So, in that respect, "plug-and-pray".

- The measuring part appears to be a ceramic printed circuit boar (pcb) with deposited substrate resistors and sliding contacts that will, so it appears, add more resistors (in serial) as the floater moves.

I just took a "quick-and-dirty" measurement with my (digital) ohm-meter directly on the solder-contacts of the ceramic pcb:
Tank Full: 86.6 Ohms
Tank Empty: 3.4 Ohms

Remarkable detail:
Some of you may know about the current BMW Recall action regarding leaking fuel-pumps because of the cracked seating of the (plastic!) quick disconnect?
According to the records I have this good-as-new fuel-pump is of February 2012, and already (!) does contain the formal fix that BMW has released, being a metal ring around that seating.
Meaning, at least in my book, that BMW already knew about this problem!  :o

-
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: kobus on August 08, 2014, 01:02:18 AM
I spoke to a few guys regarding fuel strips at the BMW MOA Rally, and most of them told me that BMW in the US has extended the warranty on the fuel strips in the US until something like 2018, so they just go to the dealer and have it replaced for free.

Does anyone know if this is the case in Europe/elsewhere as well?
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on August 08, 2014, 01:11:48 AM
I can assure you that is not the case in the Netherlands.  :(
At most one, sometimes two, years of warranty after the date when the fuelstrip was replaced. (thus warranty on the repair).

But sometimes it is up to the BMW dealeRT to decide if they want to "go to battle" for you and try to claim warranty with BMW.
However, that is more rare then regular, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Haakon on August 08, 2014, 01:37:55 AM
I believe this is more of a dealer issue than BMW AG policy.
If your local dealer want you as a customer in years to come they will cover the cost.
If the fuelstrip failures have been registered as a fault in one of the 2 main USA vehicle recall systems I bet BMW AG decided to cover all costs. (and give a exteded warranty)
Its simple economics- fix fuel strips or loose reputation AND sales.
There are no such recall or fault systems (databases)  in Europe.
We have them but its more like private websites.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on August 08, 2014, 02:19:37 AM
It is true we do not have the extensive/well organised Recall culture as in the US.
Or the consumer-organisations who keep taps on it.

However, by law, in many EU countries, a manufacturer is obliged to contact, either direct or via your dealer, when a serious problem arises;

Such as the ESA rear-strut thingie recall action for the R1200 LC's;
All deliveries were put on hold, R1200 LC's were retrieved from their owners via the dealers, and some dealers offered temporary replacement bikes (on their costs!) whilst the R1200 LC ESA issue (replacement) as being addressed (as we speak, I understand)

Or the well know fuelpump-quick disconnect crack, where customers, when they visit their BMW dealer for maintenance or with complaints about gasoline smell, get almost instantaneous replacement of their fuelpump. Free of charge.

Or the upcoming Recall (safety check) for the (1st generation) I-ABS that BMW AG has been publishing in the Dutch Press.

These are true safety-issues, where BMW AG is on the steering wheel and the BMW dealer is taking care of the problems outlined above.

As for the fuelstrip, that is not a safety issue nor a recall.
It is true, depending on your business and relationship with said BMW dealer, that they will do a "warranty" replacement again, and sometimes again and again, for the fuelstrip. Where at first you do pay, the second time BMW AG will pick up the bill (warranty on repair) and the third time the dealer will likely pick up the bill.
But that really depends on the circumstances.

So, the answer in that respect & retrospect, to the initial question if BMW AG provides extended warranty on the fuelstrip, merits in my experience, still an unfortunately, no, I'm afraid not.

Whilst there is not a formalized (public) recall such as in the US, when your BMW is in the shop, the BMW dealer can check online in BMW AG's maintenance system if there are any outstanding recalls for your BMW.
I know, because I have a printout of my BMW what has been done in the past since day one, and what is still outstanding a year ago, when visited my BMW dealer.

So, the BMW dealer should be your friend, it can benefit you and your wallet.  ;)

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Mainframe on November 26, 2014, 12:01:16 AM
2008 GSA WB10390078ZT98775

Fuel strip replaced twice under previous owner.

Now at 36,000 miles and fuel strip acting up again - does not report properly on the last half of tank capacity.  Will try recalibration with GS911.

20150319 Edit - after 6 months of ownership, I'd say the gauge readings are a bit weird at the last 1/3 tank, but not unacceptable.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: bruzer38 on March 19, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
2009 gsa,  VIN: WB10380079ZW75582, bought the bike in 2013  :D  1 strip replacement last year  >:(, bought a gs-911 and found this forum. hello all  8)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Dann on June 25, 2015, 05:36:57 AM
I spoke to a few guys regarding fuel strips at the BMW MOA Rally, and most of them told me that BMW in the US has extended the warranty on the fuel strips in the US until something like 2018, so they just go to the dealer and have it replaced for free.

Does anyone know if this is the case in Europe/elsewhere as well?

In the US BMW has extended the warranty to 12 years on fuel strips - Bulletin 16 002 14 (017)

In Canada there is no official warranty extension.

This is the answer I got from BMW Canada:

Quote
While there is not an extended warranty released by BMW Motorrad Canada for the fuel strip, we are reviewing assistance requests on a case-by-case basis.  To determine if assistance is available for your motorcycle, please consult your Service Manager when you have your appointment with your local BMW Motorrad retailer.  During your appointment, please speak with the Service Manager, who will then submit your request for assistance.

They did end up replacing mine free of charge as a "goodwill gesture"  :)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: jack basarab on June 26, 2015, 01:47:02 AM
2010 R1200RT  Vin WB1044002AZW17826.
The Fuel strip has been just fine up until last week.  The bars and computer said I had 40 miles to go, but the engine said "I have no fuel".  Stranded on the side of the road for a bit. 
I'm going to have the strip replaced. jack b in burien, wa
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Dann on June 26, 2015, 02:58:03 AM
I always thought that on the 2010 +  the fuel strip had been changed to a float...
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: jack basarab on June 26, 2015, 06:58:10 AM
Evidently my bike was made early and missed the modification.  The 911 says I have a strip and I believe it.
Funny because I had a 1150GS previously and it had an 1100 brake line system on it.  When I went to replace the brake lines with ss, I ended up with the lengths that fit an 1100, not an 1150. Go figure...jack in burien  :-)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Alan T. Butler on July 30, 2015, 03:34:33 AM
My 2010 R1200GSA has a fuel strip.  I've had it replaced about three times under the extended warranty.  Typically it shows about 450+ mile range when I gas the bike, which is probably impossible. 

Seeya
 ATB
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: bruzer38 on October 21, 2015, 07:14:03 PM
southport superbikes took my bm in for the recall part to be done foc spoke about fuel strips and agro have had previous strips witout a part warranty, bottom line bought a new one all fitted for £195.00 with 2 year warranty from them happy days.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on June 05, 2017, 01:46:06 PM
Some good & some bad news on this specific topic;

There is a guy in The Netherlands who had researched the issue of the infamous Fuel Strip vs Floater.

The Good News;
It turns out that the GS(A)'s ZFE has the capability for either the Floater or FuelStrip already built-in.
The connections to the specific pins on the ZFE for both the Floater as well as the FuelStrip are there and not, unlike the 1200RT, shared to other functions when you use one or the other.
Meaning, the same ZFE (on the GS-series) can used for either.
How it is with the specific connector to the fuel pump is a different story (3-pin versus 4-pin respectively).
From what I was told by a BMW Engineer, it was (also) to accommodate those riders who "rigorously" do adventure-riding.
If the existing wiring-harness can accommodate those two versions (read: connectors) I do not know.
One would examine the ZFE and see if these specific pins would be wired (too), for example.
But then I do not have a shop, I'm a hobbyist.

Ok, back to this fellow-Dutchman;
He created a plug-in "blackbox" for the GS(A) that would allow the ZFE for the Fuel-Strip (4-pin connector) to be hooked up to a Floater.
Because, kudos for him, he found out that replacing the existing Fuel Strip on the existing(!) Fuel Pump with the Floater mechanics(!) is quite a simple task, on the GS(A).
All the mechanics, mounting-points etc, are there, it is just a matter of removing the Fuel Strip and clicking-on the Floater mechanism.

Rather then trying to fool around with the ZFE wiring, his black-box then converts the signal from the (new) Floater into a Fuel Strip-type signal that the ZFE would understand.
He has been working on this for several years, but is small-scale.
Main issue is the 4-pin male connector, apparently not an easy connector to come by or every expensive.
So he 3D printed (amongst other techniques) that connector himself.
And that solution has been working quite well, he sold them to many GS(A) users who "converted" from Fuel Strip to the Floater successfully.

I'm currently investigating (read: mock-up connecting a Floater) to a R1200RT.
There it is a wee bit more elaborate;
The 1200RT Fuel Pump is an either-version; or for the Fuel Strip or for the Floater, and not "prepared" for retro-fitting the other version.
However, see my previous response, I had already obtained a R1200RT 2010 Fuel Pump which contained the Floater.
So, when a R1200RT has the Fuel Strip and you want the Floater, it would be a matter of replacing the (complete) Fuel Pump assembly. And his black-box (for the GS).
He & I both expect this should work electronically, read, the connection(s).
Which I will try to do later, chemo's are a bitch when you want to do intricate work.
I will update this thread once done.

Then the Bad News;
He decided to cease operation for the moment because this was not enough to make a living from and it interferes with his regular job.
He is currently looking for somebody to take over the operation, the tools and intellectual properties (I guess money would need to be involved) and bring it to a more production-level.
So he is currently closed down, sold all the existing stock of black-boxes and is on holiday.
Should their be more development on that arena, I will also update this thread.
I already suggested to him to go more mainstream and announce it to the world, e.g. BMW dealers, forums and such, but he was hesitant as he does not have the production-level that would potentially require it, should it really fly-off big-time.
It is unfortunate that such a good initiative boggles down for that reason, but fully understandable. If you have a regular day-job it should not interfere with that regular job.
I recall the infamous Road Rocketeer, excellent LED read-light replacement products (in my experiences) but very bad business-practices.

Maybe HexCode is interested in buying the rights to this black-box.  :)

I will update this thread as soon as I can but wanted to share the above at least ...
 

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: robo1973 on August 02, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0gyeLF1VdcpUWt6WUVJRkFaMzQ

Order by mail: robo1973@vp.pl
Price 100 euros
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Inspector Gadget on June 10, 2018, 12:25:45 PM
And some more updates on this subject;

First, the website, in case you do not want to read-back 5 pages;
https://hposkam.nl/en/projecten/ (https://hposkam.nl/en/projecten/)
(and for those who can read & understand Dutch: https://hposkam.nl/projecten/ (https://hposkam.nl/projecten/))

Ok, he has decided to spin-up a (former) BMW-dealer in the Netherlands to resell his units, instead.
This dealer is quite reputable, I know from personal experiences, btw.
(He still does sell the Tank Strip Emulator, which takes away the whole function of the fuel strip all together but resolves that annoying yellow warning light and you will need to drive on your odo-meters instead as fuel level will be permanently fixed at full level all the time, no matter what)

The reason for his choice is as aforementioned, the amount of work required, especially with the after-sales (reads: loads of questions about replacing the fuel-strip version fuel-pump with the level-type fuel-pump et cetera) was just taking away a lot of time, interfering with his regular job.
Next to the fact that replacing the fuel-pump is not an easy nor simple task, where some customers underestimated that task, causing a lot of support.

So, the product and solution is still fully alive but then via a reseller.

If you're fed-up with the infamous Fell Strip Failures, you're options are; )(some ment to be somewhat comical, pls do not shoot!)
- Get a newer bike that uses the level-float instead of the fuel strip version (yes, that is ment to be a comical remark)
- Visiting the BMW dealer for the defective fuel-strip replacement and hope to get a warranty-replacement. (fingers crossed every time)
- Using the aforementioned Piezo Zap method. It may work but I also got responses that eventually it will no longer work?
- Use the Fuel Strip Emulator or make one yourself (see page 4 go this thread for a simple schematic) accepting you will need to ride on the daily milage counter instead from then onwards. Fuel-level will always be in maximum full.
- Replace the fuel pump assembly with one that uses the level-float assembly and the Fuel Strip Convertor

Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Joe-T on August 17, 2018, 01:53:23 PM
I've also had had a fuel strip problem with my R1200GS 2007 - fixed it the piezzo way after two years - and working (giving no errors/warnings) for two years now.
If mine fails again I'm very inclined to go swap the fuel strip against a lever type.

I went into analyzing the sensor operation closer and found an issue with the realtime values for the fuel sensor heating voltage. I'm currently analyzing this with HEX Code but we could use your help on a small issue.

Can you help and post the maximum realtime value for the "Fuel strip heater voltage" as reported via the GS-911 for your bike?

How to get there : ZFE > Realtime Values > Fuel strip heater voltage
Do you see any value above 2 V within an observation time  of 1 .. 2 minutes ? I'll appriciate any fedback positiv and negative !!

Note:
You should monitor the displayed value over a period of approximately one minute or slightly longer as the heater is activated intermittently and at three levels.

/Joe
P.S.
 Anyone interested in (technical) details please refer to this thread I've created: https://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php/topic,2266.msg8642.html (https://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php/topic,2266.msg8642.html)
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Nicol Carstens on August 20, 2018, 09:58:26 AM
How to get there : ZFE > Realtime Values > Fuel strip heater voltage
Do you see any value above 2 V within an observation time  of 1 .. 2 minutes ? I'll appriciate any fedback positiv and negative !!

Hi guys. Been working with Joe digging into the details of his problem. If anyone else has info on this (similar bike and readings), would love to hear from you.

Nicol
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Guilherme on November 23, 2021, 07:50:24 PM
Hello StephanT,

Regarding the possibility of replacing the strip sensor with the float sensor, the solution was found by a colleague on the UKGSer.com forum.
To read the article paste this string into the browser and it will take you to it "Fuel strip to float conversion complete guide. (ukgser.com)".

The electrical diagram is very clear and shows where the pin change should be made and it is quite simple.
The problem is in the ZFE configuration where we have to change the parameters. The article says:

Programming!
Without this computer "ZFE" doesn't know you just installed float type sensor...
Connect the cable find your bike on the list K25ADV in my case...
Go to central chase electronics ZFE
and find Thermo Coupler FLS 08 and change the value to Potentiometer. Press CODE
Next, find INDUCTIVE FUEL SENSOR change to"deactivate" press code.
You're done!


The colleague DenzO is using a Moto Scan App with OBD linkLx scanner.

It would be very interesting if you could implement access to these parameters so that many who suffer from Level Strip Sensor can resolve the issue definitively.

These are for the R1200GS and R1200GSA from 2007 to 2010, the year that BMW returned to using Float level, due to the huge amount of problems caused.

Waiting your opinion and answer.

Best regards,

Guilherme
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: schuppi on November 23, 2021, 11:25:24 PM
Hello

I think, that are new features of the latest firmware update 8)

 https://www.hexgs911.com/news/november-2021-firmware-updated-available/

Service functions:
DWA and RDC Retrofit and Removal for K24 Instrument Clusters
ZFE Coding Workshop Mode
ZFE Fuel strip to float conversion with Vehicle Order update
Service Reminder Reset for XKOMBIA
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Wilco on November 24, 2021, 12:06:52 PM
Just to repeat here what was said in the other thread.

We currently have this feature exposed in Beta on the Web App. Reason for not doing a full release yet is that we have insufficient data on what controller types and Coding Indexes fully supports this.

Here is what the GS-911 currently does:
1. Read controller type and Coding Index.
2. Expose the two coding options mentioned (two only if controller supported, sometimes just one) with advice to change in tandem but the ability to change only one.
3. Write ZFE coding and update ZFE configuration parameters.
4. Write VO changes to all controllers that carry a VO copy.

Anyone looking to access this feature and give further feedback can contact support to join the Beta program.
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Guilherme on November 24, 2021, 02:49:32 PM
Hello

I think, that are new features of the latest firmware update 8)

 https://www.hexgs911.com/news/november-2021-firmware-updated-available/

Service functions:
DWA and RDC Retrofit and Removal for K24 Instrument Clusters
ZFE Coding Workshop Mode
ZFE Fuel strip to float conversion with Vehicle Order update

Thank you Wolfgang / Vielen Dank Wolfgang !!!
Service Reminder Reset for XKOMBIA
Title: Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
Post by: Guilherme on November 24, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
Many thanks Wilco !!!