General Category > Central Vehicle Electronics/ZFE/GM issues
R1200RT Instrument Cluster Blank
mike d:
As promised here is the latest update:
1. Well it is pretty clear the Dash is not talking to CAN-BUS so look at the connections to start with
Connections are all fine. There may be two separate ECUs in the Kombi because the GS911 confirms comms with Kombi H/L (I am assuming this is the headlight and not Hi / Lo ? But the main engine ECU reports no response from the Kombi (no H/L mentioned)
What we have found with other dash assemblies is they run at 5v internally and the voltage regulator inside has aggressive over current protection and will shut down a dash. The fact you are saying it initially displays and then goes blank reminds me of a voltage regulator shut down due a short or even just dirt and crud build up on the circuit board.
It initially displays when you first connect a fresh battery - it has always done this and another RT owner has confirmed this is normal. Also by holding in the right hand button on the dash I get the mileage display and I can change the clock setting - but nothing else displays. So I assume this is a stand alone circuit which doesn't rely on the canbus or the ECU
Well I am back to square one and thoroughly fed up.
I've used a high wattage bulb (21w) to put a good load on the system with my Fluke Avo across the load. No significant volt drop was seen at any point.
I have confirmed permanent 12vdc and switched 12vdc at all relevant parts of the circuit.
I have run full continuity tests on the twisted pair wiring at every point in the circuit including between the lo and hi cables which shows the 120 ohm resistance I would expect to see.
I still can't work out why the ABS pump is not completing its normal wizzy self check when the ignition is turned on. The GS911 speaks to the ABS with no issues and if you disconnect the main cable to the ABS, the GS911 detects it and reports a comms error as expected. The main engine ECU also then reports a comms failure with the ABS until you reconnect the cable - so all appears well here. The only connection I can see from the ZFE to the ABS is the canbus twisted pair so I can only assume that the ZFE instructs the ABS to commence its self checks. If I had access to another 2005 model RT I could run a few tests but alas I don't.
Now on to the ZFE itself. GS911 can not get any response from this unit at all. No ECU info, no faults codes - nothing. The main engine ECU also reports that it can not get a response from it. I did check the output from pin 22 of the ZFE to pin 5 the instrument cluster and it was 11.97v - that seemed an odd value so I connected my test bulb across the circuit and a expected the voltage dropped to 60mV. Turn the ignition off and this disappears to 0v. Again 60mV seems a very odd value - but without knowing what it is being used for it is fairly pointless speculating.
On the RT there are only two wires involved with the ignition switch and as I have proved there is a reliable 12vdc supply to and from it, I'm not sure taking it apart will solve anything. The bike starts and runs fine which it wouldn't do if there was an ignition voltage issue.
I simply can't afford the cost of a new ZFE (particularly when at this stage we cant say with any certainty that is what is wrong) and Balderston BMW's service manager was totally disinterested when I went in to investigate them coding a second hand ZFE for me. I have to say I found his approach very disappointing I was clearly taking up too much of his time, but it seems to be common in major bike dealerships these days unless you're buying the latest machine from them.
So the bottom line is unless I find an affordable solution the bike will be broken for spares which is a crying shame. I am so totally fed up.
WayneC:
While I am not too familiar with the 1200GS, the comms etc is what I do for crust
First look at the wiring diagram and look at how the diags is wired. Is the GS911 communicating direct to each ECU on K-Line connections and are there 2 diags buses which I suspect there is. If so that would explain why GS911 communicates with Dash/ABS/BMS
Secondly unless I am going mad, the CAN H/L is merely indicating both legs are connected
Re dash internal operation, I repair 650GS dashes and assist others to do so, when I first looked into them I was quite surprised that there were dedicated dash processors used by the manufacturers, they actually do all the functions including keeping time and multiplexing the displays, quite an eye opener so on what you have now indicated it sounds like the basic processor system is fine but perhaps a question over the CAN interface
Be careful using globes round some of the systems, they dont all work from 12v, some can be 5v so globes used to be good test tools but now not so good
Jughead is the man with the real 1200 knowledge so let us see what he suggests, the master may teach us a trick or 2 ;D
WayneC:
I took a quick peek at a wiring diagram and it is dual K-Line so GS911 talks to BMSK and ABS directly on separate lines, I am uncertain re comms path to dash but it would seem both ABS and BMSK should be able to see it via CAN
Jughead:
--- Quote from: WayneC on August 20, 2015, 03:30:56 PM ---...
Jughead is the man with the real 1200 knowledge so let us see what he suggests, the master may teach us a trick or 2 ;D
--- End quote ---
;D I'm one of those jack of all trades, but master of none!
I have had a number of the RT and GS bikes with dead or "slow" clusters. On those with the "slow" cluster, the cluster remains dead to maybe 2 or 3 minutes, then suddenly wakes up.
On all of them I have found it to be corrosion in the micro switches as posted above. The only cluster I have ever replaced is one that got filled with water after someone had a go at it with a high pressure cleaner.
Sorry I can't be of more help on this one.
WayneC:
Ah well, we are all beginners in something or other, me particularly ;D
It does sound to me a device is interrupting CAN BUS and ZFE seems a good target, all the ECU's connect to it Dash/BMSK/ABS/ZFE/DWA
What I am unclear about is which device is the gateway to the dash, I have always believed the BMSK was the gateway but I wonder if GS911 can check going through other devices as a diagnostic, only Hexcode could answer that question
I would be tempted to write down each function which was working/not working in a 2 column list to see if that identified the culprit, I would also be tempted to disconnect one device at a time and see if that opened up comms to the dash
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