Author Topic: Bike Firmware  (Read 12570 times)

onahi

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Bike Firmware
« on: September 10, 2022, 06:09:03 PM »
Do you think, in the future HEX will have access to the BMW bikes firmware to allow users to update themselves at home ?

schuppi

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2022, 06:45:30 PM »
Never, I don't think so!

Firmware update requires an online connection to the BMW factory server and that's why
BMW never allows such updates 8)
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onahi

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2022, 07:12:32 PM »
It would make sense to give access. It would free hours and hours up in their workshops. Everyone has an internet connection.

WayneC

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2022, 02:59:35 AM »
It would make sense to give access. It would free hours and hours up in their workshops. Everyone has an internet connection.

When a Dealer does ECU firmware updates & encounters issues the Dealer is backed up by BMW who then ensures the owner of the bike is protected from any expense for failed ECU's etc so the legal issues with others doing firmware updates are significant

onahi

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2022, 03:08:50 AM »
It's firmware. Like any other firmware.

panman40

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2022, 09:06:53 AM »
It would make sense to give access. It would free hours and hours up in their workshops. Everyone has an internet connection.

When a Dealer does ECU firmware updates & encounters issues the Dealer is backed up by BMW who then ensures the owner of the bike is protected from any expense for failed ECU's etc so the legal issues with others doing firmware updates are significant

I wanted my f/w updated when the bike was in for a service but they refused saying it could brick the ecu and I would be responsible to fix it. I recently read that a 1250RT was much smoother to ride after an update.

schuppi

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2022, 10:43:51 PM »
 ::)
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Wolfgang
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botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 08:11:34 PM »
Never, I don't think so!

Firmware update requires an online connection to the BMW factory server and that's why
BMW never allows such updates 8)

the current red box interface wouldn't go there - but the idea of a non motoradd dealer should be out there

USA posh car diagnostic kit has dialled home to manu servers for a few years (Merc and BM have a way for you to connect for a fee) - its the new normal - they all build vehicles with utter gibberish and let customer do the development work

likely old
Subscription costs do apply and are chargeable direct to the manufacture as below:

    9 Euro basic 1 hr
    30 Euro basic 1 day
    100 Euro basic 1 week
    350 Euro basic 1 month
    3575 Euro basic 1 year

botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2022, 08:20:04 PM »


I wanted my f/w updated when the bike was in for a service but they refused saying it could brick the ecu and I would be responsible to fix it. I recently read that a 1250RT was much smoother to ride after an update.

they are just idiots, crooks and liars

after the fight to do mine he came back and said oh sorry I was wrong there is a std labour charge, its not the 20 mins I said, its 10 minutes!

then back in to another dealer, for a recall with the rear suspension falling off - the service guy  (ex Merc)  -  100% believed what he was saying " there is no such thing as an Engine Map update on a BMW..."   (I didn't tell him - why spoil his dream) but I was saying to myself, dream on pal the bike has had 3 already !!!!

oddly wrote this on another forum today -  might come in handy - FYI what goes on or rather more often than not doesn't


If a BMW (Car or Bike) needs any of its software updated in the various modules it has fitted - the procedure the dealership undertakes is called an i-level update

There are rare occasions where they are instructed to do this at a service for safety reasons - and its best not to obstruct this - or it may be dangerous for you or other road users - they will usually NOT tell you they undertook this work - they want people to retain an image this activity doesn't happen !

this procedure re-flashes the entire vehicle in one continuous sequence - writing each module in turn - with whatever BMW now prescribe as the current approved software for that vehicle. What changes is dependent on the vehicle and said modules fitted. It can be one module gets an update, and the others just get a new install of what it had, or everything changes everywhere.

The dealers do not pick and choose and don't not know what the changes will bring - they just plug it in, it talks to Germany and it says I need this - and they press the go button.

If any module doesn't take the update, the programming locks up - failing at the module that is being strange. (This is very common on the Cars where non-approved secondhand extras are installed or enabled without the appropriate software license and support fee having being paid - and naughty people have altered the VO - vehicle order). If it dies they have to investigate and repeat till the entire vehicle is on the new i-level (integration level - AKA the approved bundle for all modules on the vehicle). Its by far the best method any Manu complete. As the entire bundle of software is approved and should be compatible - if there is a bug they didn't know about - all vehicles will have it and so the impetus to resolve is fast and the driver is known - as its not this unique vehicle being odd, (which is the case with most vehicles and is why most are never fixed).

In the USA BMW car drivers are well aware of this update and improvement cycle - when its a major entertainment update (like it was bringing out android auto) - people camp out at dealers waiting to be the first to get the upgrades on release day - there are three main cycles each year !!!

In the UK (cars or bikes) and it appears at Motorrad dealerships worldwide, they have always pretended there is no such thing.
My K1600GTL has 12 separate ECU modules - of which 8 have had updates since Build, with 4 getting newer updates when they had it in June 2022 - I forget which, one ECU is on it 3rd software update in it 3 year's of life

You shouldn't get too excited (but you ought to want the latest) - aside from in car entertainment - very few give functional improvements the user can see or feel. But minor bug fixes, security, safety and enhanced diagnostic functionality, etc. changes all the time. There's even a standard charge - I thought 30 mins for the bikes, 1 hour on the cars - but he told me he was wrong on the phone, and it was a standard fee of 10 minutes labour.

There are also extras you can legitimately add for a fee - I had ASC retrofitted on by 2007 GS (just coz I could) by my local BM Main dealer just last year (13 years after build). I didn't have the tools to change the VO and the way they do it, the main network controller blocks the comms around the vehicle - even though I could enable everywhere-else with aftermarket tools it won't work till all bits happy.
 


« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 08:32:25 PM by botus »

botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2022, 08:20:11 PM »
I found a USA website listing stuff BMW would rather you didn't know

checking out some stuff quite a few bikes got released with features not paid for - and here BMW did the dirty re flashing the features out

Like removing Hill Hold after they built a batch that weren't sold as having this option
And Traction control on others

the first could be (by strange people), and the later certainly can be seen as a safety features a user might now trust is on their bike only to have it stolen at service - this is very naughty - they could kill people - they should have flashed the features as legit instead

« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 08:22:04 PM by botus »

elptxjc

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2022, 09:42:13 AM »
When I bought my new 2020 R1250R (on Oct 02, '21), it had a service warning already, which was somehow introduced by an incompetent tech when he did the PDI. The BMW specialist wasn't there, so I had to take the bike another day. When I returned, he connected the bike to the BMW computer, and told me the guy somehow did update it correctly, and that it showed the latest software version. He recommended I went every year and pay an hour of 'troubleshooting' to get it updated. My bike works perfectly fine, so I see no need to do that. Plus the dealer is far away. So haven't come back. It'd be great being able to update it ourselves from our computers, even if we have to pay for it. I do my own service, so my bike might never touch another dealer again if I can avoid it :).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 07:35:20 PM by elptxjc »

botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2022, 10:53:23 AM »
ha, your timing is perfect

every BMW dealer MUST flash the current software at the bike upon sale - it leaves the factory in that 1/3rd year production disaster software release and multiple bugs might be fixed by the time of sale

like no brake lights, headlights that turn off when the wipers go on - its all mad in modern vehicles...  as for an annual update, great idea - I ask every time its in, the correct charge is 10 minutes labour !!!

just this week a guy with a Merc saying he doesn't understand why things don't work - so I told him WHY updates are a very good idea, and shared how many updates my BMW has had just before the 3 years warranty ended

are you sitting comfortably - then i'll begin

people need to realise the software in cars and bikes was once written by a coder that understood floppy discs, not cars or bikes - they retired just as the tech industry started making chips like confetti around 17 years ago - thus the world had moved, now needing far more coding, but there's no competent ones left to try...

what we have on today's cars and bikes is software written by the same people that write jokes for Asda's value range of Christmas crackers - to help them make something that to some degree mostly operates - we invented compiler tools - these act like washing machines for noughts and ones - where no one actually understands any of it anymore - when a bug is found they just put some more washing powder in and try a faster spin cycle and hope it works this time

all of which means every other day some part of the software in your car or bike stumbles about misbehaving, as it comes across another mistake no one knows about or understands why its happening, let alone how to resolve - with a 2015 car you likely have a list of a million rows of code in 25 modules that was written less badly many years ago - but were never applied to your car

the cost to try the updates is really peanuts - but the gear to do it is 11k a year rental for each garage - Thus with 9 million vehicles out there and around 1 system to do 100 cars a day, they pretend there is no benefit in updating the cars software - for a start no one tells them why the update exists - so they have all become expert proponents in selling a pitch that its pointless - one driver of that, is because the manu can't admit (legally would be a bit dim) under these conditions the airbags will never operate, the ESP goes on holiday every year sometime (but they haven't worked out its calendar yet), and the engine tends to play up on the M25 and M1 in alternate years on odd numbered dates every December... Yet we fixed most of that for 10 customers last year, but now 6 say it makes the wiper blades operate 6 times on the 4th of July, and had we updated you car correctly when it was in for its service your wife wouldn't be hospital now...

my 2019 BWM bike has had five complete rewrites to everyone of its 15 computer modules - with two modules running iterations of jokeware 4 versions on from the one's it left the cowboysRus manu site with - the trouble with virtually all cars and bikes is no one ever updates any of it for its entire life... the reason I'm letting you know, is my BM SOS joke was playing up in in May with intermittent connections and does it less after the updates...

and here's the bike - see bold and then red - note dates are back to front year first

XBMSMP1 : -
Controller Type : Engine Controller
Controller Name : XBMSMP1
Manufacturer : Bosch GmbH
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/12/04
Program Count : 3

XABS : -
Controller Type : ABS Brakes
Controller Name : XABS
Manufacturer : AABG
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/12/02
Variant : ABS-Pro + Hillstart + Dynamic Braking
Program Count : 1

XFSA : -
Controller Type : Satellite Body Controller
Controller Name : XFSA
Manufacturer : Loewe / Lear
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/10/27
Program Count : 2

XSAF : -
Controller Type : Semi-active Suspension
Controller Name : XSAF
Manufacturer : Temic
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/11/16
Program Count : 2

XDWA : -
Controller Type : Anti-Theft Alarm
Controller Name : XDWA
Manufacturer : META System S.P.A.
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/11/19
Program Count : 3

XTPM : -
Controller Type : Emergency (Telematics) Module
Controller Name : XTPM
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/09/28
Program Count : 2


had they not updated from the one it left the building with it would have a zero.... like this one

XASW : -
Controller Type : Active Headlight
Controller Name : XASW
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 18/08/27
Program Count : 0



« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 07:14:33 PM by botus »

botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2022, 07:06:23 PM »
on a roll today

SIB 63 01 20
RECALL CAMPAIGN 20V-146 CORRECTION OF VEHICLE ORDER,
EMERGENCY BRAKING STOP LAMP
2020-04-28
Please perform the procedure outlined in this Service Information on all affected vehicles before customer
delivery. In the event the customer has already taken delivery of the vehicle, please perform the procedure
the next time the vehicle is in the shop.
This Service Information Bulletin replaces Delivery Stop 630007.
MODEL
E-Series Model Description Type Code
K21 R nineT 0J03
K22 R nineT Pure 0J13
K23 R nineT Scrambler 0J33
K47 S 1000 R 0D62
K50 R 1250 GS 0J93
K51 R 1250 GS Adventure 0J53
K53 R 1250 R 0J73
K54 R 1250 RS 0J83
K67 S 1000 RR 0E23
K80 F 750 GS 0B18
K81 F 850 GS 0B19
K82 F 850 GS Adventure 0K03
K83 F 900 R 0K13
K84 F 900 XR 0K23
AFFECTED VEHICLES

5/7/2020 63 01 20_RECALL CAMPAIGN 20V-146 CORRECTION OF VEHICLE ORDER, EMERGENCY BRAKING STOP LAMP

You should not sell, lease or deliver any Certified Pre-Owned or used motorcycles subject to a
safety recall until the repair is completed
Please follow any special instructions that we provide to you for the return or disposition of
recall parts
SITUATION
Vehicles were produced with an emergency stop signal function in which the brake light flashes during
emergency braking. This functionality does not comply with US regulations and therefore must be turned off
through recoding (programming) the vehicle.

PRODUCTION SOLUTION
As of February 20, 2020 vehicles are produced without this fault

nearly had another for you - but its only these where there is a software update because the headlights don't work correctly

7/1/2021 63 01 21_HEADLIGHT FUNCTIONALITY LIMITATIONS DUE TO LIN-BUS CONNECTIVITY FAULT
1/2
SIB 63 01 21
HEADLIGHT FUNCTIONALITY LIMITATIONS DUE TO LIN-BUS
CONNECTIVITY FAULT
2021-06-30
This Service Information Bulletin replaces SI 63 01 21 dated February 2021.
MODEL
E-Series Model Description Date Range/Details
K21 R Nine T 2021+ with LED Headlight
K22 R Nine T Pure 2021+ with LED Headlight
K23 R Nine T Scrambler 2021+ with LED Headlight
K33 R Nine T Urban G/S 2021+ with LED Headlight
K34 R 18 / R 18 Classic
K50 R 1250 GS 2021+ 3rd generation headlights
with cornering light function.
K51 R 1250 GS Adventure 2021+ 3rd generation headlights
with cornering light function.
K69 S 1000 XR
K83 F 900 R
K84 F 900 XR
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 07:08:07 PM by botus »

elptxjc

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2022, 07:47:33 PM »
Thank you for that info. I updated my post with the date I bought my 2020 R1250R HP with 0 miles: It was on Oct 02, 2021. So it already had all of the issues corrected, which also included the connectivity (bluetooth) update. Forgot the software version my bike has now, but must be current, or just one version behind. Dealer tech said BMW updated the software like once a year. The US didn't offer 'active headlight', by the way (my bike has all available options back then), nor an LED one, even though the owner's manual only says they came with LED headlights; go figure. Finally, as much as I don't like taking my vehicles to (incompetent) dealers, if there's a problem that needs to get fixed and I cannot do it myself (or too expensive), of course I take them in.
 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 08:29:44 PM by elptxjc »

botus

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Re: Bike Firmware
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2022, 08:12:42 PM »
most R1250GSA in the UK are full spec with LED's, keyless,  LCD dash, Axu lights etc.

the other day i was in the showroom and they had loads of the new models in the showroom  many with NON led lights - with this chip shortage they have done the dirty and built LOTS of budget spec stuff - I expect they'll pedal to ignorant leaseholders....