GS-911 and ezCAN User Forum
General Category => Technical => GS-911 => ABS related issues => Topic started by: mayojuaf on October 30, 2016, 02:45:07 PM
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The executive summary is
Brake light is always on (both filaments)
Speedometer does not work
so IABS (servo unit in 2004) light flashes fast and warning light is on
Test cycle does not complete so no servo brakes
Troubleshoot steps
Tested both break switches and work fine. Front shows 3.85 V and goes to 0 when pressed. Rear same voltage and goes to 0. When bike is with no ignition key, both switches show 1.4 V. (is this ok)
Blue ABS relay under tank is ok, tested and clicked and tested two other connectors of relay and they have Voltage
bleed system front, rear and ABS box.
I tested the speed sensors by stripping insulation on cables before they get to the wheel and measure volts. I understand that will only tell me volts being sent to the sensor, but not if the electromagnetic coil is working correctly. Nevertheless...
In the back sensor I got 0V when off and 9.95V when switch on. On the front was weird. With switch off I got 2.3v....and with switch on got the 9 something volts. Seems is not ok. Problem is front sensor plug is under cockpit (so very difficult to reach and replace)
Used gs911 and here are the result
how can i fix the no response from controller?
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Hello
Wellcome to GS911 forum.
Nice pictures :) but it will be better to send a complete Auto Scan to see all faults in each module. Thank you for cooperation 8).
Here is my first aid:
cable measurement on ABS connector
permanent positive > connector position 2 (red) > battery voltage
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus
ignition > 3 (green) from ignition switch > cycled on > Battery voltage
Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test > 0 Ohm
If this measurement is right and no communication with ABS module it will be broken.
Hope this will show you the right way
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Schuppi, thanks for the prompt response!
Here are the results of scan
ECU Info Report
GS-911 version: 1609.1 Datapack version: 6.1
Serial Number: GS1 005 178
Firmware version: 0.251-0.144 Datapack version: 0.127
Registered to: juan mayorga
Date: 10/30/2016 Time: 11:38:09 AM
________________________________________
Motronic MA2.4
Motorcycle Variant: R1200C ECE+US,LL=900
Part No.: 7671709
Bosch Part Number: 0261207870
ECU Software Number: 1037368115
ECU coding variant: 1
ECU program version: 25000100
Manufacturer: Bosch
HWOE No.: 61380786
Idle Actuator: Yes
Emissions control type: Lambda
Fault Codes Report
GS-911 version: 1609.1 Datapack version:6.1 Serial Number: GS1 005 178 Registered to: juan mayorga
Date: 10/30/2016 Time: 11:38:57 AM
821: Hall sensor 1, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
This fault occurred 0 times.
The fault is currently present.
901: Hall sensor 2, no signal – this fault will always occur if engine not running or engine not cranked before reading Fault codes.
This fault occurred 0 times.
The fault is currently present.
5382: Idle Switch, open circuit since ignition ON.
This fault occurred 0 times.
The fault is currently present.
When I try to run de ABS tests I get the No response from the controller
Let me see if I understand your first instructions
I need to go to the part in the picture below, yes?
with meter check position 1 and 2 to get 12 v
and then swich tester to ohms and 31 to 1 should give 0 ohms in tester
what about ignition 3? I lost you there...
am I getting there?
Thanks again
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my test gave
1 and 2 gave 12 v
1 and 31 have infinite ohms
see pictures, did I do the correct thing?
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Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test > 0 Ohm
from connector ABS module pin 31 to the round connector for diagnostic pin 1. (0 Ohms)
On connector ABS module pin 3 to ground >ignition on > 12V ?
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Schuppi, I am sorry i feel so dumb when trying to follow your instructions...
When you say:
permanent positive > connector position 2 (red) > battery voltage
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus
You mean I should measure voltage to se if it is coming to the ABS module?
when you say:
ignition > 3 (green) from ignition switch > cycled on > Battery voltage
I am not sure what should I measure..
when you ask:
Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test > 0 Ohm
You mean I should connect 31 and 1? and measure voltage or ohms?
sorry I am so useless here...
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ohhhh I read your instructions 5 more times and I think I got it...
I should work with the bikes round connector (where I plug the gs911) and with the ABS module that has like 42 pins (the blue connector in my pictures.
cable measurement on ABS connector will measure ABSmodule and and round connector
permanent positive > connector position 2 (red) > battery voltage (should connect the round connector pin 2 to the positive of the battery
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus (should connect the round connector pin 2 to the - of the battery
ignition > 3 (green) from ignition switch > cycled on > Battery voltage I will put ignition on ...? here I can figure out what I should do...
Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test > 0 Ohm
get my meter and measure ohms between : the ABS blue big conector hole 31 an round connector pin 1
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Oh no.
:-[
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus. That is the brown cable from pin 1 ABS to battery negative. Here you can
measure the right ground connection while connectors are unplugged. > testing range > Ohm
Don't do it. Please read, think and than do the measurement.
Or get a wiring diagram to find the cables.
permanent positive > connector position 2 (red) > battery voltage
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus
You mean I should measure voltage to se if it is coming to the ABS module? YES
ignition > 3 (green) from ignition switch > cycled on > Battery voltage
I am not sure what should I measure.. >> min. 12V
Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test > 0 Ohm
You mean I should connect 31 and 1? and measure voltage or ohms? No, see above
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Schuppi, thanks for your patience. Here are my measures
12 v permanent positive > connector position 2 (red) > battery voltage
ground > 1 (brown) > to battery minus
12 v on ignition > 3 (green) from ignition switch > cycled on > Battery voltage
1.4 ohms Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test
Pin 1 on diagnostic connector is a brown with a black line. Here is where I measure to pin 31 of ABS connector
Pin 4 is all brown
Is this ok?
See picture.
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i just tested 39 and 40 for front brake, and for rear brake 7 and 41 . Both are ok some ohms when not press and infinite when pressed
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Hello
1.4 ohms Diagnostic > 31 (brown/black) > to diagnostic connector pin 1 >removed connectors only continuity test
If your meter is right, I would look for this to get it down > corrosion?
Pin 1 on diagnostic connector is a brown with a black line. Here is where I measure to pin 31 of ABS connector.
Otherwise your ABS module is down :-[
Pin 4 is all brown > Bike ground > connected with battery minus
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Schuppi,
Can I test speed sensors at iabs module connector? from the wiring schematics, pins 33 and 35 are for front and 34 and 36 for rear.
What should I read in ohms for those pins 33-35 and then 34-36?
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Hello
Sorry not measurable with your multimeter.
These are Magneto-resistive sensors which cannot generate a signal voltage on their own.
They must have an external power source, provided by the ABS-module.
If your ABS is still not readable, there also will be no output for the sensors.
Checking the sensors an oscilloscope is required.
Only cable resistance measurable.
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that is why my "invention is not working to test the new sensor....what if i connect my extra battery also?
the meter will read 12 v but when I spin the wheel it will read more than 12?
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Hi
I do not know, if that would work :o outside the complete wiring. Never tested it.
But the output of these sensor is in the range of 0,6V to 1,6V when transmitter wheel runs past the sensor.
Checking the sensors an oscilloscope is required.
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Thanks chuppi, you are the best!
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Connecting an extra battery is not a wise. There are low cost hand held DSO's available which would be able to look at wheel sensors and crank sensors
http://www.jyetech.com/Products/LcdScope/e112A.php
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so if I get that DSO, I connect each cable of the DSO coral to each prong of the end side of the sensor cable and then put the sensor close to the ring of the wheel and make it spin? what should I expect to see in the DSO?
I can test the sensor in my extra wheel set up?
then I can take the rear speed sensor from the bike (that is easy) and repeat test.
an so with the front brake sensor (a little more work to get that one out...)
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You would need to test the sensor on the bike with the sensor connected normally and the Coral 112a probe connected to the sensor and earth
The circuitry internal to the ECU is 5v supply to a resistor network with the sensor a small part of it, spinning the wheel changes the voltage across the sensor by a small amount only
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Wayne, thanks for your help (again)
The comment on using the extra wheel is because my bike has only my side stand so can not get the wheels to turn..
That is why I set up the extra wheel and was trying to test the sensors there.
But you mention the sensor needs to connected to the bike? i mean to the IABS module? can not test on the extra wheel?
I also lost you a little when you say the coral connected to one of the pins? do you know which one (pin 1 or Pin 2)
and then the other pin to earth? or is that to the other pin of the sensor or just anything touching earth?
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It varies between models whether one side of the sensor is earth or not, I would expect on your model the sensor would be using "balanced" cabling so neither side would be earth. with and Oscilloscope or DSO I would normally look at the whole component signal with the probe from component to earth, you would need to try each connection to look for signal
Yes you could use the spare wheel but only if the sensor was connected and the ECU active
Re lack of centre stand, that would be frustrating and like my own machines I would be organising a bike lift or paddock stand to work on it
A word of caution re sensors on modern machines, many around the engine ECU's can be 5v operation not 12v so care is needed
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yes, I thought of getting me a lift...
I lost you when you say
"Yes you could use the spare wheel but only if the sensor was connected and the ECU active"
That means I need to build a kind of cable bridge between the end plug that comes from IABS module and the end of the speed sensor that connects to plug
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a guy in another forum mentioned that because this is a IABS III I could use the below to measure hz when wheel spins
I could try both methods and if they work fine will be a great contribution to all forums.
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I placed the order for the coral meter....
will be here mid week....
I could not make the hz meter work with above setup :(
Coral meter is my last hope ;D
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tested more things
pin 31 of iabs to pin 1 of diagnostic gives 0 Ohms
but 31 to battery -, and pin 1 diagnostic to battery - give both 16.5 in the 20K Ohms selector
That is a lot of resistance....?
Is that ok?
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That's best.
Because it is the diagnostic wire without connection to battery
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Guys, I am back. I bought the oscilloscope. Where should I connect the black and red alligators to measure signal from sensor?
Can I do it directly without connecting the sensor to the IABS? just turn the wheel, and at the end of the sensor connector plug the osciloscope?
Thanks again for your help!
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You have a learning curve in front of you to learn how to use a DSO/CRO, the red lead of the probes is the active and the black is the earth
Use the inbuilt oscillator to learn how to change the display and settings for different signals. Connect one proble to the LHS and the other to the right then connect red to red black to black and you should see the inbuilt test signal on screen, if not then you change the settings until you see the signal
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ok, is like going back to college :) I did not have these courses...
Thank you so much for your patience....
Ok is this picture representative of what you were telling me?
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Yes, now you need to learn to change the time base so you can display different frequencies, ie making for either more or less pulses visible, you will also find you can move the signal up and down on the screen with the arrows you see on each side of the display, as well as the size of the signal displayed. In addition there is a setting to show the amplitude, frequency and other info of the signal on screen as well as record it for transfer to PC via USB
The wheel sensor will be a 0 to 1v signal of differing frequency dependent on how fast the wheel spins so learning the above will be important
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Oooook. Give me some time ....
hang on, let me play with this...
i guess there are no short cuts, like go no~go..😃 Or if blits you are good...
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ok, here are the potential settings
can you suggest the settings?
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Hi
looks good, but BMW suggested 20 ms/Div.
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Thanks Schuppi!
and i should measure DC, AC, or frequency?
The red alligator to the positive (pin 2 of speed sensor connector)
and black alligator?
is the diagram below correct? this is the way I should connect the oscilloscope?
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OK, i bought a lift and I have the wheels moving free.
I have the oscilloscope on DC.
where should I put the red and black alligators from the oscilloscope?
Almost there.... one more step....
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ok, tested in AC , (no DC) front rear and extra.
got this results, see pictures
The rear was turning slower as I had to deal with Osc, turning and picture :)
I guess the sensor are working fine...?
anybody :) ?
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Well done, you have managed to learn to use the DSO and yes it certainly does look like that sensor is working fine
To avoid the struggle to spin wheel juggle DSO and take a pic, you can save the wave form and bring it up on a PC to see it later
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So according to the ones who know what they are talking about
6 things to cause ABS failure. It comes from the gs forum but is applicable to 2004 CL
1- Lever or pedal failing to travel fully back to the correct position. This is usually caused by the hand guard preventing the front brake lever from fully extending or a pebble or twig preventing the brake pedal from returning to its up most position. An easy way to tell that this is your problem is if your brake light is always be on. Notice, however, that it is possible to pull the lever sufficient for the ABS system to detect it, but not enough for the light to come on. This can be a confusing situation.
2- Sensors. If either of your brake sensors fail the brake light will stay on. Severed wires, dirty sensors or melted sensors can cause this failure. If your speedo works then your rear sensor is definitely OK. Make sure your front sensor is clean and wire is not severed.
3- Fluid levels. Tip overs can cause fluid to leak out of the ABS pump under the gas tank. Pull off the gas tank and top off each of the circuits. This will fix a fluid level related failure.
4 - Microswitch problems. There is a little tiny switch under the front brake lever and next to the rear brake pedal. You should hear an audible click when you activate either. This switch can fail although it is rare. If your problem is not 1,2 or 3 then this is probably your problem. If the switch is bad your brake light will not activate from the bad switch.
5- Low battery voltage. This is a the common cause of ABS failure on the 11xx versions of ABS. Usually the ABS will start working normally when the alternator gets the charge back up to normal. The ABS versions on the R1200GS are not as senstive to low voltage issues and voltage related failures are very rare.
6- Bad pump unit. Very rare. In fact I have not heard of one failing on the R1200GS yet. There have been a few replaced but these were diagnoses errors and real problem was one of the four items above.
I tested all of the above but the dreaded IABS Servo. that is the one that costs $2,000 and that they say can be converted to non ABS . Could not find anyone doing it in a 2004 R1200CL
so I won the battle on learning how to test switches and sensors, but lost the war of fixing my IABS issue.
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Well you won the battle re the sensors and you are now moving to do battle with the IABS rather than losing the war ;D
The fact that the IABS does not respond to diagnostics tends to indicate the electronics board in the IABS may be faulty which is not in the list of possibles
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Thanks Wayne, any thought on how i can trouble shoot that to see if it reparable?
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Look at posts by Jughead he has considerable experience with ABS, while I have experience on other ECUs, there was a US Co repairing some as well
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Wayne, yes, I just reviewed all posting from Jughead. He is indeed the Master of the Universe on ABS matters.
I will try to contact him via private message but in the meantime I have a GS911 question.
My GS911 tells me he can not communicate with the controller. Is that an electronic issue more than a pump problem? If something was stuck or it had not enough pressure, it will give me the error code?
Is the electronic board the problem?
I understand the servo is not running so the IABS is not completing a check and so all light are on etc, but is the message "no response from Controler" mean the GS911 can not talk to the circuit board?
Autoscan does recognize de ECU and runs but when you chose the abs option sends the message of not possible to communicate...
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Yes the fact the GS911 is unable to communicate with the IABS indicates the possibility that the electronics board in the ABS unit is faulty, the other possibility is that the ABS electronics has not initialised fully due to a mechanical/hydraulic fault and is in effect in a wait state
From memory the Autoscan you posted did not show the ABS ECU, only the Motronic ECU
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Today I disassembled part of the IABS modulator. Took out te pressure valves? to see if they were stuck. Also took out the filters (one of them was very dirty) clean the best I could (swallow some brake fluid but not tat bad :))
I bled again the system thoroughly, wheel and control circuits. Fluid was fine but still flush it to get fluid running...(first time was somehow dirty)
So, the good news is that when I take it to the dealer and if he says the IABS module is shot, I will believe him ...
maybe they do some magic and is NOT the IABS... (i have always been an optimist)
all that have responded my call for help, thank you for helping me here. I learned a lot.
I am not sure I am ready to bypass the servo as I have not seen instructions for a R1200 cl . Only for GS or R?
If someone has seen these CL instructions somewhere, please let me know?
Thanks again
and if you are going through Houston, send me an email and will be glad to invite for a drink!
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I am obstinate as a mule.
Continued digging and found this on the car's troubleshooting forum. Is amazing but now not surprising BMW uses similar (similar, not identical) strategies in ABS for cars and bikes
I found the following when looking for no abs,no speedometer, no cruise control and all lights on...:
SUMMARY:
The problem is usually a single wheel sensor goes bad (wires or the <$100 sensor), or the ABS control module goes bad (an aluminum resistance-welded wire lifts off its bond pad, Bill kindly ran a full autopsy here). Debugging is best done with a DMM; an OBDII scanner can ONLY find "communication errors", i.e., it cannot tell a bad speed or pressure sensor from a bad ABS control module and will often report the wrong problem because it isn't inserted BETWEEN the ABS control module and the various sensors (see extensive reports by 540iman on this). The ABS control module costs ~$150 to $300 to rebuild, ~$500 to replace; if you put anything back on other than your original ABS control module, the VIN will need to be recoded (15 minutes with a GT-1 or Autologic or similar; impossible otherwise). You'll need to clear your OBDII DTC codes after you fix everything if you plan on passing smog tests that week (ask me how I know). If you need to replace a speed sensor, don't go aftermarket; get as close to OE as possible.
Before you send your ABS control module out for rebuilding, please consider opening it up first, post pictures to Bill's ABS autopsy thread (the rebuilders say they work on previously opened ABS control modules all the time). If you fix the broken wire, post that to the thread as a success story!
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696108
Not sure if it will work, but feel better now on paying $100 to dealer to use their DMM and that maybe my GS911 only said "can not communicate with ABS module"
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Yes BMW does deploy similar technologies on the cars and bikes, the bike division is often the beneficiary of the developments in the car division
The text from Bimmerfest though is not relevant to your problem, the GS911 is telling you it cant communicate with the ABS ECU on the OBD diagnostic line so you need to determine the reason for that. I dont have the 1200CL wiring diagrams to easily to hand but it appears the ABS is on the same OBD connection as the BMSK engine management ECU, confirm that is the case then used the DSO you purchased to look and see if the GS911 signal gets to the right pin on the ABS ECU and whether there is a response. You will only see the signal go up and down, that will tell you
I identified a local Co here yesterday who is repairing some of the bike ABS ECUs, they list R12000GS and K1300S at a minimum
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Wayne: (thanks! for hanging on on this one)
Not sure about
"it appears the ABS is on the same OBD connection as the BMSK engine management ECU"
Not sure what to look in here where all the wiring diagrams are, but here is the link to them
https://www.pdffiller.com/en/project/84700672.htm?reload=true
"see if the GS911 signal gets to teh right pin on the ABS ECU" from page 97/98 (page 92 from the PDF) it seems that is pin is 31? or 21? (is not very clear) goes to x9590 that is diagnostic?
So plug gs911, switch on and I should use meter and connect pin 31 and grown and measure DC?
I run gs911 with engine on and reads fine all stuff. The ECU also is detected. but when switch screens to read ABS get the dreaded message.
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Firstly do not use the pdffiller site or any of the other similar sites. They systematically steal copyrighted material from around the web and then present it to people, in some cases charging money to view the documents. I have had to protect all the pdf's on my own 650gs web site from them, they are vermin
Secondly if you are going to work around the electrical system on the machine you need to purchase the wiring diagrams from BMW, for some models they are available and for other models you need to purchase the SLP CD which has diagrams for all models on it, the last part number I saw for the SLP CD (SLP Version 2.2) was 01 79 7 720 399, it has all models 1993 to 2008 on it.
I checked the wiring diagram for your 1200CL, the OBDII diagnostics BUS does go direct to the ABS as well as the Engine ECU (Motronic not BMSK as I posted before), so there should be a connection between the diagnostics socket pin 1 (Brown/Black wire) to pin 31 of the ABS
When you say the GS911 "reads fine all stuff", no, it is only communicating with the Motronic, there is no response from the ABS ECU which may be due to the ABS ECU being faulty or a broken wire from the diagnostics socket to the ABS
You would use ohms scale and see if there is a connection between pin 1 of the diags socket and pin 31 of the ABS socket (ie 0 ohms)
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Thanks for the heads up! Fortunatelly i never use the diller, my pc gives me the option of looking in brouser insted of engaging pdfiller, and i always use browser
Thanks also for looking into de wiring diagrams, i have checked pin 1 of diagnostiv to 31 and shows 0 ohms
Also checked Pin 1 and 3 with ignition on at abs conector, and show 12 v