Author Topic: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)  (Read 82727 times)

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2014, 05:22:52 AM »
PS: I just ordered the floater-type fuel-pump.

I can chew on it for ever, but having it in front of me will help my creative juices going.  ;D

Haakon

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2014, 08:46:16 PM »
Very good explanation "DutchMidiMan"- thanks.
Both the the probable causes, repairs and modifications.
I was afraid I had stirred up a "hornets nest" by my unqualified post re this. :)

I have no idea at all to what sort of signals are used. The industrial standard are 4 to 20 mA (0 to 20mA is used but not often)
IF BMW use a 4 to 20 mA signal range there are lots of SIGNAL CONVERTER`s that can be used.

That is the reason I wrote what I did. The strip is more linear than most common floats but the difference is academic.
Here you have a link to the first link to direct converter I found- from sliding resistor to mA output.

http://www.acromag.com/catalog/119/Signal_Conditioners__amp;_nbsp;Converters/Signal_Converters,_Transmitters/Slidewire___Potentiometer_Input

This type of converters are used all over in industries- so the price may be way too high.
I am sure cheap editions can be found! I guess a 5 to 10 % in the full tank readings are not important?
Its more important to have exact readings when the fuel level is low?
Some such converters can be programmed all over the range but they cost more.
If BMW use a value range outside of 4 to 20 mA that too can be "faked". (compensated for)

Could you or some other hook up a mA instrument so we know the range?
(We need to know the mA at full and empty fuel level- with a working strip :-)
------------------
I must re- read you post- I am too tired and have had a glass of w...ne.
Haakon

PS- I am NOT a "electronics" or automation and measurements  engineer. That said, even I manage to set up that sort of converters  :-[   

   
2000 F650-GS

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2014, 03:07:24 AM »
You're welcome, of course!

Recognized the signal converters!
Having family working in the process automation and having attended a few classes myself in university. However, chemistry definitely not being my thing (or mathematics to a certain extend) I figured it would not be my parse.  :-[
(although I do remember indeed 4 mA minimum, so that 0 mA would indicate a broken connection/loop, or something along those lines)

Don't worry about the hornets, all creatures are equally important on this earth.  ;)

I agree that the resistive measuring part of the fuel-strip will be likely indeed linear.
Logarithmic is usually only on the volume-knob of the radio as our hearing also logarithmic.
(and the tone-knob usually being of the linear type pot-meter)

But, the good news is that I believe the clue is being already been found with the "FuelStripSpoof_v2.jpg";
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770085&page=6

The 2K resistor being enough to fool the ZFE that the tank is full.
And the current being limited via the 1M ohm resistor.
(mind you: the measuring-part of the fuel-strip then needs to be disconnected as stated by the author).

But lets wait and see what the floater-type resistance-values are, it is currently underway to me.  8)

I can't take measurements on my 1200RT as the fuel-strip already failed, it shows permanent tank-full. Because most of the fuel evaporated because I wasn't able to ride a bike for a long time because of chemo-treatment and acute type-2 diabetic.  :(

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2014, 12:19:14 PM »
And received the floater-type complete (!) unit this morning, including fuel-pump, electronics, the works.
And that only for 110 euros/152 US$/1567 ZAR.  Including shipping. :D

First, some good news;

- The floater is mounted onto the fuel-pump assembly, so it is all "one part", the floater is *not* hooked into a holder inside the fuel-tank for that matter. Unlike the fuel-strip version, that needs to be hooked into the bottom of the fuel-tank and on the top of the filler-cap.

- The connector to the floater-output (variable resistance) is the same, 4-pin connector as with the fuel-strip version, with the same pin-layout. (the middle connections are used for the sensor, and with the floater-type the two outside, remaining pins are not connected)
So, in that respect, "plug-and-pray".

- The measuring part appears to be a ceramic printed circuit boar (pcb) with deposited substrate resistors and sliding contacts that will, so it appears, add more resistors (in serial) as the floater moves.

I just took a "quick-and-dirty" measurement with my (digital) ohm-meter directly on the solder-contacts of the ceramic pcb:
Tank Full: 86.6 Ohms
Tank Empty: 3.4 Ohms

Remarkable detail:
Some of you may know about the current BMW Recall action regarding leaking fuel-pumps because of the cracked seating of the (plastic!) quick disconnect?
According to the records I have this good-as-new fuel-pump is of February 2012, and already (!) does contain the formal fix that BMW has released, being a metal ring around that seating.
Meaning, at least in my book, that BMW already knew about this problem!  :o

-

kobus

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2014, 01:02:18 AM »
I spoke to a few guys regarding fuel strips at the BMW MOA Rally, and most of them told me that BMW in the US has extended the warranty on the fuel strips in the US until something like 2018, so they just go to the dealer and have it replaced for free.

Does anyone know if this is the case in Europe/elsewhere as well?
---
R1200GS Adventure (personal weapon of choice)
... and then the company fleet.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2014, 01:11:48 AM »
I can assure you that is not the case in the Netherlands.  :(
At most one, sometimes two, years of warranty after the date when the fuelstrip was replaced. (thus warranty on the repair).

But sometimes it is up to the BMW dealeRT to decide if they want to "go to battle" for you and try to claim warranty with BMW.
However, that is more rare then regular, unfortunately.

Haakon

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2014, 01:37:55 AM »
I believe this is more of a dealer issue than BMW AG policy.
If your local dealer want you as a customer in years to come they will cover the cost.
If the fuelstrip failures have been registered as a fault in one of the 2 main USA vehicle recall systems I bet BMW AG decided to cover all costs. (and give a exteded warranty)
Its simple economics- fix fuel strips or loose reputation AND sales.
There are no such recall or fault systems (databases)  in Europe.
We have them but its more like private websites.
2000 F650-GS

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2014, 02:19:37 AM »
It is true we do not have the extensive/well organised Recall culture as in the US.
Or the consumer-organisations who keep taps on it.

However, by law, in many EU countries, a manufacturer is obliged to contact, either direct or via your dealer, when a serious problem arises;

Such as the ESA rear-strut thingie recall action for the R1200 LC's;
All deliveries were put on hold, R1200 LC's were retrieved from their owners via the dealers, and some dealers offered temporary replacement bikes (on their costs!) whilst the R1200 LC ESA issue (replacement) as being addressed (as we speak, I understand)

Or the well know fuelpump-quick disconnect crack, where customers, when they visit their BMW dealer for maintenance or with complaints about gasoline smell, get almost instantaneous replacement of their fuelpump. Free of charge.

Or the upcoming Recall (safety check) for the (1st generation) I-ABS that BMW AG has been publishing in the Dutch Press.

These are true safety-issues, where BMW AG is on the steering wheel and the BMW dealer is taking care of the problems outlined above.

As for the fuelstrip, that is not a safety issue nor a recall.
It is true, depending on your business and relationship with said BMW dealer, that they will do a "warranty" replacement again, and sometimes again and again, for the fuelstrip. Where at first you do pay, the second time BMW AG will pick up the bill (warranty on repair) and the third time the dealer will likely pick up the bill.
But that really depends on the circumstances.

So, the answer in that respect & retrospect, to the initial question if BMW AG provides extended warranty on the fuelstrip, merits in my experience, still an unfortunately, no, I'm afraid not.

Whilst there is not a formalized (public) recall such as in the US, when your BMW is in the shop, the BMW dealer can check online in BMW AG's maintenance system if there are any outstanding recalls for your BMW.
I know, because I have a printout of my BMW what has been done in the past since day one, and what is still outstanding a year ago, when visited my BMW dealer.

So, the BMW dealer should be your friend, it can benefit you and your wallet.  ;)

« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 03:00:48 AM by Inspector Gadget »

Mainframe

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2014, 12:01:16 AM »
2008 GSA WB10390078ZT98775

Fuel strip replaced twice under previous owner.

Now at 36,000 miles and fuel strip acting up again - does not report properly on the last half of tank capacity.  Will try recalibration with GS911.

20150319 Edit - after 6 months of ownership, I'd say the gauge readings are a bit weird at the last 1/3 tank, but not unacceptable.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 07:58:11 PM by Mainframe »

bruzer38

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2015, 07:54:15 PM »
2009 gsa,  VIN: WB10380079ZW75582, bought the bike in 2013  :D  1 strip replacement last year  >:(, bought a gs-911 and found this forum. hello all  8)

Dann

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2015, 05:36:57 AM »
I spoke to a few guys regarding fuel strips at the BMW MOA Rally, and most of them told me that BMW in the US has extended the warranty on the fuel strips in the US until something like 2018, so they just go to the dealer and have it replaced for free.

Does anyone know if this is the case in Europe/elsewhere as well?

In the US BMW has extended the warranty to 12 years on fuel strips - Bulletin 16 002 14 (017)

In Canada there is no official warranty extension.

This is the answer I got from BMW Canada:

Quote
While there is not an extended warranty released by BMW Motorrad Canada for the fuel strip, we are reviewing assistance requests on a case-by-case basis.  To determine if assistance is available for your motorcycle, please consult your Service Manager when you have your appointment with your local BMW Motorrad retailer.  During your appointment, please speak with the Service Manager, who will then submit your request for assistance.

They did end up replacing mine free of charge as a "goodwill gesture"  :)

jack basarab

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2015, 01:47:02 AM »
2010 R1200RT  Vin WB1044002AZW17826.
The Fuel strip has been just fine up until last week.  The bars and computer said I had 40 miles to go, but the engine said "I have no fuel".  Stranded on the side of the road for a bit. 
I'm going to have the strip replaced. jack b in burien, wa

Dann

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2015, 02:58:03 AM »
I always thought that on the 2010 +  the fuel strip had been changed to a float...

jack basarab

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2015, 06:58:10 AM »
Evidently my bike was made early and missed the modification.  The 911 says I have a strip and I believe it.
Funny because I had a 1150GS previously and it had an 1100 brake line system on it.  When I went to replace the brake lines with ss, I ended up with the lengths that fit an 1100, not an 1150. Go figure...jack in burien  :-)

Alan T. Butler

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Re: Fuel Strips (Film type fuel sensor)
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2015, 03:34:33 AM »
My 2010 R1200GSA has a fuel strip.  I've had it replaced about three times under the extended warranty.  Typically it shows about 450+ mile range when I gas the bike, which is probably impossible. 

Seeya
 ATB