Author Topic: Change time delay off on the GPS plug  (Read 11515 times)

gs2012rider

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Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« on: May 13, 2014, 04:11:11 AM »
Anybody knows how to change the time delay off on the GPS plug on a GS 1200 2012.Actually the time delay is 60 seconds I would like to change it to ignition off. With no time delay. This plug is located just in back of the oil cooler pending to hook up a GPS, but I would like to use it for triggering some other equipment.
using gs911 beta v1404

marchyman

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 08:10:34 AM »
Unless BMW changed the spec over the years it is "up to 15 minutes".   Usually it goes off in about 60 seconds but sometimes for reasons unknown it will stay hot for a lot longer.  I don't think there is anything you (or a dealer) can do to change that value.

Solution: don't use that plug.   Wire your GPS to a power distribution box with a relay that is tied to a switched source.  I like to use the headlamp to trigger the relay.   It doesn't go on until the bike is started.  It goes off with the key (2012 and earlier).

gs2012rider

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 03:04:34 PM »
You maybe right Marchyman, but I, am going to wait for sometime and see if someone did made that Mod. Actually i have a power distribution module PDM 60 from Rowe Electronics connected to that plug. The problem that it gives me is when I programme the pdm 60 with a time delay it gives me a longer delay than wanted since the hot wire is still alive for sometime.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 09:45:17 AM »
The "up to 15 minutes" is when the CAN-bus detects a GPS connected to that GPS-feature connector and (e.g.) the battery of the GPS is not yet fully charged.

I noted that with both my BMW NAV 4 & BMW NAV 5.
Once the battery is fully charged, CAN-bus switches the port off.

I also have the PDM60 connected to the same GPS-feature connector, plus several other (LED) lights. (DRL & BMW Deluxe Rear Lights).
But it is the (battery of) GPS unit that keeps that port open for a prolonged period in my experiences.

I do know of some old issues in the past where a certain type/model/version the Garmin cradle for the Zumo 660 kept that port open and could cause the port never to switch off & thus drain the battery of the motorcycle within a few days.

Bruce Jones

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 09:20:22 PM »
Hi all.
Has there been any update on this topic, I am experiencing the same issue.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 01:14:59 AM »
You don't give much information about your set-up, bike and so on?

Anyhoe, you can not change this time-out yourself.
The port stays open if it notices a current is being drawn. For example to charge the battery inside a GPS.
(I believe the threshold is somewhere around 1 amps)

What you can try is disconnect whatever you have connected to the GPS-connector and see if that influences it.
If that does, you should consider FuzeBlock FZ-1, Arboreal's Neutrino or Rowe's PDM60, and connect all your kit to them instead.

Other then that, you can not change the time-out settings yourself.
Perhaps the BMW dealRT can, but as far as I'm aware he can't either.

CAN-bus (or rather, the ZFE) senses currents and tries to be smart about it.

Bruce Jones

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 11:22:12 AM »
Hi Inspector Gadget

Thanks for the response, and for being tolerant with the Newbie!

I have a 2008 R1200GS (facelift) and am based in Johannesburg.

I recently installed my Garmin 220, powered from the GPS connector, as well as LED spots powered from the battery, using the Hella auxiliary power jack for the switched power. As discussed in this forum, the time-out has stayed on the max (15 minutes or so), probably due to the GPS battery not being fully charged.

I can live with the GPS staying on for a while if its battery is not fully charged, but I intend moving the LED spotlight switched power to the tail-light power so that the spots turn off immediately, as suggested elsewhere. I will probably only get around to this on the weekend.

I will send through the results then.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 11:46:35 AM »
Hi Bruce, no worries, we all started from the beginning!  :)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Garmin 220 has a so-called active GPS-holder.
Meaning, that there are electronics inline (read: in the cable, inside the cigarette-connector or inside the cradle) and that also could "trigger" the can-bus.

But there could also be a rather easy way to check if the battery of the Garmin 220 is the culprit;
You may perhaps notice the charge-indication on the battery-level indication versus a power-on indication on the battery-level.
Meaning, you will see a charge-in-progress versus an indication of the battery-full indication.
Often Garmin's do show a difference. So that you know that the battery is charging or if it is fully charged. (and will then often show that an external power-source connected).
But as I do not have a Garmin 220 you may want to look in the manual, and observe the battery-level indication icon on the Garmin 220 with a fully charged battery and a partially drained battery.

Then a firm warning, if I understood you correctly;
Please do not hook-up any (!) electronics or loads onto the tail- or brake-light of any BMW.
The ABS and the braking system (and the cruise-control, if present) are hooked into the ZFE (the central computer of the BMW) and putting additional load (or changing it, e.g via replacement of the lightbulbs with led-versions) will cause problems.
This is a proven fact and you should stay away from the tail and brake-light. Please.

On the 1200-series, the brake- and tail-lights are modulated, meaning voltage is switched on-and-off very rapidly to emulate brake- and tail-lights using only one filament.
Putting any load or changes of the bulbs will affect the ABS, braking system and cruise-control.

If you want switched power you will need the aforementioned fuze block (et al) so that whatever you hook-up to the bike, it will not interfere with the electronics.

Unless I misunderstood your attentions, and I apologize.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 12:04:47 PM by Inspector Gadget »

Bruce Jones

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 12:12:20 PM »
Yowzer! You've scared the *%$# out of me!

I'll take heed and be very careful. Thanks for all the advice.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 12:44:19 PM »
Sorry, but it is not uncommon to hot-jump the rear lights on motorcycles.
I do not express any opinion about that.

But with can-bus motorcycles such as the 1200-series, you better not.

The absolute safest way is using a separated circuit so it won't interfere.

Mind you, you can use the GPS connector to draw up to (about) 2 to 3 amps.
I run my coming-home/positioning (led) light from there, and also my GPS.
And use a PDM60 with the Clearwater authority lights (multiple).

Bruce Jones

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2016, 09:26:38 PM »
OK, so I've established the following:

The Garmin Zumo 220 runs off 5V. The power cord from the 12V supply has a small step-down transformer built into it in the form of a small rectangular box. Of course this is going to continue to draw current even if the GPS isn't plugged in, because that's what transformers do! This means that if the GPS gets power from the can-bus plug, and even if the GPS is unplugged, the current drawn from the inline transformer will keep the power on from the bike after the ignition is switched off. As Inspector Gadget mentioned, if the GPS battery is not fully charged, the power will remain on for the maximum time that the bike is set for, i.e. 15 minutes. If the battery is fully charged, the transformer current is small enough for the can-bus system to switch power off after 60 seconds. In case my battery is not fully charged when I switch off, I put a small inline switch in the GPS power line before the transformer. Switching that switch off means that there is zero current drawn, and the can-bus power switches off after a few seconds.

Regarding the spotlights, I used the power line in the diagnostic plug for the switched power line, and the main power comes straight from the battery. This way the spots come on when I switch the ignition on, and switch off immediately after switching the ignition off.

Problems solved! Happiness!

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2016, 02:37:12 AM »
Most modern-day GPS are indeed running off 5 volt, cuts down on power-usage, easier circuit-designs and cheaper batteries.
And of course the ability to hook it up to a PC. (via USB).
So, for all intention & purposes, indeed check the GS for "hidden" electronics, including the plug, containing electronics to convert down 12 volt to 5 volt.

Putting a switch in-line is a grand solution and of course quite cost-effective.

Using the power-connection of the diagnostic-plug, pin 6 does indeed goes straight to the battery.
You will need to put a fuse in-line though, but I'm sure that is part of your light-setup anyway.

Glad to read you reached your goal and find a good solution. (dumb up)


« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 02:40:56 AM by Inspector Gadget »

Skim

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 11:28:30 AM »
I am a bit late into this, but my 2 cents worth...

Fitted a Garmin Zumo 390 to a 2010 RT last week. It was a temporary fit, connecting the fused power wires directly to the battery until I could figure a better way. Was also concerned with the current draw of the step down transformer so checked it. What I found was that as soon as I removed the GPS from the mount, there was absolutely no current draw. Not sure how they do it, but for now I will stick with this as I will be removing my GPS from the mount when I leave the bike unattended.

If there is a better way please comment.

Inspector Gadget

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 11:50:28 AM »
Modern-day GPS are more and more considerate to what bike-electronics exists nowadays.
(CAN-bus is not that common in the motorcycle world, as far as I know)

So, the active GPS-holder does try to avoid phantom-currents.

One way of doing that, is that Garmin GPS units create a "short-circuit" (read: jumper) onto the GPS-holder that activates the electronics (and power supply).
If that is also the case with the Garmin Zumo 390, I do not know.

What is killing for any motorcycle is the phantom-currents, it can substantially drain the battery within a few weeks.

As for the can-bus;
You can (& should) use the GPS connector on the 1200-series provided by Herrn BMW Motorrad for powering any GPS.
(and you could, with caution, use it to power it also a few light-weight sources, such as a led position-light)
Alternatively you could also use the accessoires-connector.
And if push comes to shove, you could also use the pilot/city-light to power a GPS.
Using the dim-light connection is not recommend as that could potentially upset the defective-light detection.

WayneC

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Re: Change time delay off on the GPS plug
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2016, 03:19:38 AM »
Was also concerned with the current draw of the step down transformer so checked it. What I found was that as soon as I removed the GPS from the mount, there was absolutely no current draw. Not sure how they do it
The answer is very simple, the 5v power adaptors used for the GPS and USB outlets use a DC to DC converter, not a step down transformer. The modern way of doing it is with switch mode techniques which enable very small devices with efficiency of 99% rather than a step down transformer which is very large and 50% efficiency. The devices are also configured so when there is no load they have very low current draw.

The BMS/Dash/ABS controllers all run internally at 5v and some may also run at 3.3v, they use similar power supply techniques with sleep modes controlled by having switched and unswitched power inputs