Author Topic: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"  (Read 34382 times)

Bikecare

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 04:16:10 PM »
After reassembling motor itself (before fitting to aluminum pump), did you measure the motor coins and test run by applying 12VDC to the motor connector? You also should rotate by hand the axle of motor to be sure it's running lightly and no any hitting, knocking inside the motor otherwise the motor can be damaged after short ruuning.

The brushes are may be long, springs are maybe good, but the moving of brushes inside square metal pipe must be very smoothly and lightly.

Do not apply any oil or grease on the brushes.

Open again and re-check...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 04:19:36 PM by Bikecare »

Jughead

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2013, 04:38:59 PM »
Hi guys!

Got the same fault codes on a GS Adventure I'm working on. Followed the procedure in this post. Reassembled, reinstalled & bled. Initialization went well & warning lamp turned off as it rolled off. Thought I had it in the bag, til I hit the brakes. ABS warning lit & went steady. Plugged in GS-911 & found the same fault codes present & wont be cleared. Carbon brushes are still very long, tension on the springs are pretty good, when I dismantled the motor. Commutator & other contacts cleaned & checked but still went back to square 1, after a short road test. Any recommendations or suggestions, on what might went wrong?

Thanks in advance!

Bernard R.

I rebuild possibly 2 of these pumps a week and have had a 100% success rate, thus the reason for being able to provide a 5 year warranty on the job.  There is only one way to do this correctly.  Remember that it is an integral part of the brakes, which, on a bike, are one of the life and death components.

I replace the bearings and brushes.

I have all the tooling to dismantle the pumps without drilling huge holes in them, as well as the tooling to reassemble them as they were in the factory, ensuring that they don't fall apart again.

I normally charge a flat rate for the complete rebuild.  However, since yours has now already been dismantled and reassembled once, that flat rate would no longer apply.

As to what can be wrong, it is very difficult to say.  It would have to be stripped again to see.

Bernard

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 04:55:56 PM »
Thank you for your reply Jughead. I believe it would be best for me to open it up again tomorrow & try replacing the brushes & bearing, as you suggested. It's good to know that you do this on a regular basis, hence I'll keep you posted on my progress & shoot any questions, should I have anymore, after tomorrow's 2nd attempt.

Bernard

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 05:00:25 PM »
@ Bike Care: Yup! Exactly what I did before reassembling the motor back to the pump, just to be sure, that it would run flawlessly. Honestly, been doing a lot of repairs on my end but this is my 1st ever ABS Gen-2 repair. I'm quite familiar with the structure of the motor itself, since the principle applies to most common motors. I'm pretty sure I did what I'm suppose to; would there be any other cause for these fault codes to show up, other than the motor? ie: The control unit, not giving the required signal or voltage?

Appreciate your immediate reply.

Bernard R. 

(thought this message went through)

Paul90

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 06:08:31 PM »
Obvious things to check would be battery, wiring, connectors, etc but I expect you have already done that.

I think it's most likely something in the motor.
Did you clean out all the carbon bits from where the bushes had worn ?
They were liberally sprayed about inside mine (@ 50k miles) and I cleaned it all up.

And also try running the motor from a 12V source before reassembly.
Oh, and give it solid "tap" with a rubber mallet before you take it all apart again just to see if it clears.

Paul

Bikecare

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2013, 06:22:34 PM »
Bernard,

If you are sure the motor has been repaired correctly, and you are sure the faulty code also the same (power suuply to pump motor faulty), then I would check the two connectors of power supply by removing control unit oposite side of motor (now it's more easy than to remove again motor). Only be very carefull with some very small springs as connector inside.

Check the male and female connectors, clean all of them. If the female connectors on the motor side to open, you can twist lightly male connectors or use thin copper sheet to increase thickness of male ones.

The faulty code: power suuply to pump motor faulty shows the problem must be only either inside motor or some where closed to the motor, no where else.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 01:33:42 AM by Bikecare »

Bernard

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 04:20:04 PM »
Hi all!

Thanks very much for all your suggestions, truly appreciate each & everyone's advise! Before discussing my on going repair with the GSA; I just want to let you guys know that I just finished an R1200GS Standard today(also with Gen 2 ABS Mod), with the same fault codes as the GSA.

This time, when I got the motor off the mod, I checked if it would run through an external power source & found the same to be stuck. I decided to set it aside for the time being, as clearly this was the cause of the problem & used the motor from the GSA as a test part. (I wanted to know if  the motor of the GSA will work on the 12GS' mod, since I know that it was reassembled right.)

After installation, the 12GS' ABS worked flawlessly. Took it out for a few kms & did several stops, just to check, if it would initialize on start up & activate on roll off. I can't be happier with the results, as it worked perfectly, each & every time. At this point, I'm pretty sure that the cause of the problem on the 12GS' ABS, was really the motor.

Being the case, it did not just prove, that the motor of the GSA was done right but also proved, that it wasn't the source of the problem, under the same fault codes. Most of the suggested recommendations stated, I've already tried & checked & none seemed to have rectified the cause. Hence, faults are still present on the GSA.

I'd welcome other suggestions, if there are anymore, especially those, that had not been taken up yet. I'm almost convinced that the mod's control unit is the cause of the problem, probably incorrect values, voltage or signals, since the GSA's motor, worked perfectly well on the 12GS.

Anybody encountered anything like this out there?
Thanks again everyone!

Bernard R.


 


     

malmac

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 02:56:34 AM »
Bernard

I have a early 2008 GSA with the same two fault codes (24048 and 24049).
Interested to know if the fault occurred on your bike at a specific time.

For example - I have been doing a full service on the bike - new rear brake pads, new brake fluid front and rear etc and then when I take it out to test ride - ABS fault.

Now the bike had to sit for two months prior to this as it had fallen over and I hurt my back trying to stop the inevitable. My mate rode the bike the 50km home for me but he maintains he did not see the ABS fault light on - he has an R1150RS and I am sure he would have noticed the light if it had been on.

So I understand the fault message and realise that it probably means the motor brushes are sticking - but is it a coincident or is it something stupid I have overlooked.

Battery is in good condition - lives on the BMW trickle charger - when bike is not being used. Mileage is about 34,000km.

So interested in what has happened on your GSA.


Regards


Mal

malmac

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 10:24:58 PM »
Bernard

While I assume you are no longer reading this thread, for others who do read the thread here is my ongoing issue.

When I took the armature to the local specialist electrical repair company they found it had shorts in the windings.
So basically, it is not the brushes, it is a shorted out armature.

When I checked the pump pins, the small pins in the aluminium block that the electric motor push in and out, one was seized up and the other hard to actuate.

I am now assuming that the reason for the pump failure is the seized up pump to the rear brake side of the ABS unit. Because I can see no easy way to refurbish this seized pump, I have ordered a new ABS unit complete.

The part that still bothers me is how to prevent this part of the ABS failing so quickly next time.
The bike is a 2008 model with 34,000km.

Perhaps this is the answer, well this is what I am thinking.
1. While the brake fluid has been changed every two years, this may not be often enough if the bike is not being used regularly. I now intend to change the brake fluid every year.
2. The bike is not being ridden regularly - we tend to do long trips now and then rather than riding every week. I now intend to ride the bike on a regular basis - say once a week.
3. This is the tricky bit. How does the pump body get fresh brake fluid flushed through it on a regular basis?
I have seen people say, this is what happens with the initialisation  process - if so, why has my pump frozen up?
Others have said you may need to actuate the ABS in a user situation by locking the brakes - this seems rather extreme, to push a safety feature that is meant to be a safety net, just to keep it operational - but maybe it is true.
Finally I have wondered if the GS911 will actuate the pump and flush the brake fluid, but I have the bike in pieces at present so will wait till all is together before reconnecting the gs911 and seeing if any such option exists.

So the message here is - CHECK the ARMATURE and the PUMP PINS.



Mal
Australia

Haakon

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 11:56:17 PM »
My stupid input here: (I fully understand its not fun to provoke the ABS to "kick in"- except for silly people like me :-))
Why not use the GS911`s ABS bleed function when you change your brake fluid?
OR use that function more often?
The ABS units valves, pumps and motor will last longer if they "run" a bit.
Not so much because of the brake fluid than to make the parts "move".
I can not think of ANY man made  "mechanical" gadget that benefit from not to be used.
Oil and grease go rancid and harden, corrosion build up and so on.
Provoke the ABS to kick in once a while (to make sure it works WHEN you need it)
OR use the GS911 to do a ABS bleed- then all the valves and motors are working.
I provoke MY ABS to kick in ever so often- and LOVE that .
It cost a bit in new brake pads but....
Haakon


2000 F650-GS

bikecrazy5

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 12:45:02 AM »
hi guys
i agree totally with haakon... :o believe it or not i provoke my abs ever so often...knowing they way i ride some or other time i will need the abs and i would really prey and hope it works

the bleed test on the gs911 is a brilliant substitute to being a nutter ;D

malmac

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2014, 03:28:28 AM »
The question I have is, does the GS911 offer a "run ABS pump function" for the 2008 and later model ABS units.
It is clear this option is available for 2007 ABS 1 units but not sure about the ABS 2 units.

It would be really stupid if the ABS 2 pump could not be flushed during the routine service and only relied on being activated while riding the bike.

A safety net system that has to be fallen into to check it works - like setting fire to your kitchen once a month so you can operate the fire extinguisher to keep it operational. Well maybe a bit extreme - but it would still be stupid in my estimation.


Mal

marchyman

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run ABS pump function
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2014, 06:25:03 AM »
The function chart -- http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/gs-911/function-chart/ -- separates iABS-CAN and iABS2-CAN.   The former are the whizzy brakes, the latter are the brakes found in '07 and later bikes.   Is "Service functionality" listed as yes for your bike in the iABS2-CAN row?   I think that's what you're looking for.

On the iABS (whizzy brake) bikes it's not a run ABS test.  It's a turn off the ABS pump and check that the ABS pressure is OK when pulling the lever test.  I haven't run the test on an '07 or later bike to know exactly what it does.

malmac

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2014, 07:12:28 AM »
well my new ABS2 unit has arrived at my dealer and I should have it in 48 hours - then I guess I will find out when I put it all back together.

Thanks for your help.


Mal

Jughead

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Re: Integral ABS 2 - CAN "Power Supply to Pump motor faulty"
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 08:05:08 AM »
The iABS and iABS2 pumps operate completely differently.

The iABS (Servo assisted) pumps have closed off chambers containing fluid.  Thus the need for the bleed function.  What that in essence does is opens the valves manually to allow the fluid to flow through the chambers.

The iABS2 pumps have no such chambers and bleeding can just be done in the conventional way, as all the fluid in the pump gets flushed out.